Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[LuckyR]

I have always seen "political correctness" as an approximate synonym for "polite" or "courteous". Those who practice neither of these things use PC as an insult, a sort of 'victim blaming', I think?

Really? I cannot remember an instance where the term (not the concept) Politically Correct was used in anywhere near a positive way.

Yes, you're right. "Political Correctness" is a negative term, created and used to demean courtesy and decency, I think. It is used, in particular, to describe those who try to be courteous and decent, but don't really understand the sociocultural 'rules', so they get it wrong, and go a bit over-the-top. And such 'jobsworth' behaviour can be frustrating, even a bit annoying, but at least they're trying...?

If you replace "try to be " with "demand" or "call out those who aren't" then I agree with you.

No one whines more than those used to an unfair advantage feeling like they're losing that advantage.

[popeye1945]

Politically correct, agreeing with the present dominant group thought.

You mean consensus? Being willing to go along with what your friends and neighbors say/do, in general? Fitting in with your community? Yes, I agree.

It really doesn't matter if you agree or not, group thought is group thought, being a singular voice does not make you wrong, just unpopular. Group thought tends to be the way of least mental activity, the way of least resistance and popularity, very appealing that is why it is group thought. Perhaps most often right, but the singular voice needs to be heard, it is sometimes dangerous position to be in involving some courage.

[popeye1945]

Politically correct, agreeing with the present dominant group thought.

You mean consensus? Being willing to go along with what your friends and neighbours say/do, in general? Fitting in with your community? Yes, I agree.

Chaser,

It really does not matter if you agree or not, group thought is group thought, being a lone voice does not make you wrong, just unpopular. The majority of the population is trusting and not intellectually inclined, and the elite find this easy to manipulate. The population at large is more likely to be right about something if it is of no real political interest to the elite. The collective subjective experience. When you find yourself in complete agreement in a complex situation with the majority, a red flag should go up for you; those not intellectually inclined will come up with a superficial answer, requiring little in-depth effort, that should be your inspiration to dig deeper.

[Good_Egg]

There is a balance here, I think, between abiding by the consensus in general, but not enforcing that compliance? When social norms are ignored for no good reason, that's one side of it. It's anti-social. But when social norms are enforced? That's the other side. As always, a middle path seems appropriate.

All communities have social norms, and all communities exert some level of social pressure to conform to those norms.

I don't disagree with what you say here. Most of the time it's more comfortable for everyone if we all just go along with those cultural expectations. But an excess of pressure to conform is experienced as oppressive. And sometimes there's merit in challenging a social norm that you see as unjust or based on falsehood.

The question then is when does exerting social pressure become political correctness ? Are they synonyms, in your lexicon ? Or does PC have particular characteristics which make it a negative thing ?

[popeye1945]

Political correctness often requires no thought, and is a comfortable place to be. A lone voice does not make one wrong, just unpopular, which takes, if nothing else, a bit of courage. In mythology this is represented as the hero's journey, the hero fights many battles to bring home a bounty to his community. This is a dangerous endeavor, for often the hero is nihilated or his society turns the gold bounty to sand, or very rarely, he/she enriches their communities.

[Pattern-chaser]

I have always seen "political correctness" as an approximate synonym for "polite" or "courteous". Those who practice neither of these things use PC as an insult, a sort of 'victim blaming', I think?

Really? I cannot remember an instance where the term (not the concept) Politically Correct was used in anywhere near a positive way.

Yes, you're right. "Political Correctness" is a negative term, created and used to demean courtesy and decency, I think. It is used, in particular, to describe those who try to be courteous and decent, but don't really understand the sociocultural 'rules', so they get it wrong, and go a bit over-the-top. And such 'jobsworth' behaviour can be frustrating, even a bit annoying, but at least they're trying...?

If you replace "try to be " with "demand" or "call out those who aren't" then I agree with you.

No, sorry, I don't think that's fair or reasonable. I'm sure there are those who act as you describe, but there are extremists in any cause. The opposition to those who try to act decently seems to resemble victim blaming, or something like it. "Oh, they're demanding that we act courteously too, are they?" No, I suspect they're hoping — not demanding — that you* might learn courteous behaviour from their example?

[* — Lesson learned from a recent interchange: I don't mean to say that you, personally, are saying the above, but only that there are some who would think and say such things.]

[Pattern-chaser]

The question then is when does exerting social pressure become political correctness ? Are they synonyms, in your lexicon ? Or does PC have particular characteristics which make it a negative thing ?

It is my suspicion that the negative aspects of PC are exaggerated by its critics. I mean by that, that there are not as many people using PC in that negative way as the critics make out. Perhaps they are just a tiny minority? I hope so.

Social pressure, as others have commented, is a fact of (human) life. And society is a vicious thing when it is opposed — it has no moderating influence because there's nothing bigger or nastier (when it chooses to be) than a human society. We can only ask, and hope, that societies behave decently.

No, IMO PC has no negative aspects at all. But I accept, as I must, that it is sometimes employed in the negative way that you and others have described. Like "woke", PC is caring and considerate of others, and there are those who don't approve of such sentiments. It is they, I think, who complain the loudest about those who would have *them* behave decently. How dare they?

[LuckyR]

I have always seen "political correctness" as an approximate synonym for "polite" or "courteous". Those who practice neither of these things use PC as an insult, a sort of 'victim blaming', I think?

Really? I cannot remember an instance where the term (not the concept) Politically Correct was used in anywhere near a positive way.

Yes, you're right. "Political Correctness" is a negative term, created and used to demean courtesy and decency, I think. It is used, in particular, to describe those who try to be courteous and decent, but don't really understand the sociocultural 'rules', so they get it wrong, and go a bit over-the-top. And such 'jobsworth' behaviour can be frustrating, even a bit annoying, but at least they're trying...?

If you replace "try to be " with "demand" or "call out those who aren't" then I agree with you.

No, sorry, I don't think that's fair or reasonable. I'm sure there are those who act as you describe, but there are extremists in any cause. The opposition to those who try to act decently seems to resemble victim blaming, or something like it. "Oh, they're demanding that we act courteously too, are they?" No, I suspect they're hoping — not demanding — that you* might learn courteous behaviour from their example?

[* — Lesson learned from a recent interchange: I don't mean to say that you, personally, are saying the above, but only that there are some who would think and say such things.]

Well, you're free to disagree with me, of course. But to be clear my intent was to describe (in those who are accused of being PC) legitimate pushback against previously unchallenged negative speech against the disenfranchised and the marginalized. Thus in my view "calling out" or "demanding" accountability from those who are used to carte blanche to badmouth those less powerful than themselves is the courageous response and needn't be apologised for.

[Good_Egg]

The question then is when does exerting social pressure become political correctness ? Are they synonyms, in your lexicon ? Or does PC have particular characteristics which make it a negative thing ?

IMO PC has no negative aspects at all.

You've not answered the question here, just responded to my characterisation of PC as negative.

Working backwards from this, I infer that you consider PC to mean something like "social pressure in service of a progressive cause". And because you think the progressive cause is a good end, and social pressure a neutral means to that end, you don't see anything negative.

Is that where you're coming from ?

I think that misses out on a key aspect of the meaning of the phrase.

Seems to me that the term "political correctness" originated in a (?true? ?exaggerated?) description of life under the Soviet system. Where the Party decides what is PC, and has the power to punish those whose utterances are not PC by sending them away to a re-education camp.

(The parallel I raised earlier was to the term "heresy", referencing a situation where the Church hierarchy decides what the true doctrine is, and can punish those whose stated views dissent from this).

So "PC can now be used in two senses. The "naive" sense in which the speaker believes the doctrine and is condemning the original utterance as wrong. And the "ironic" sense which iinstead condemns the act of policing that utterance, by comparing that act of policing to the acts of an oppressive elite group trying to decide what's right for everybody else and imposing it by vague threats of abusive exercise of power.

With the ironic usage being much more common than the naive usage.

So that calling something PC is (usually) being negative about the process, rather than engaging with the content.

[Pattern-chaser]

The question then is when does exerting social pressure become political correctness ? Are they synonyms, in your lexicon ? Or does PC have particular characteristics which make it a negative thing ?

IMO PC has no negative aspects at all.

You've not answered the question here, just responded to my characterisation of PC as negative.

You asked 3 questions; I began by answering the 3rd.

It seems the negative interpretation of "PC" has prevailed, and my protestations are to no avail. I must surrender.

What a shame.

[Sy Borg]

What is politically correct? Who can say? It's a moving feast. What's fine today is taboo tomorrow. What was taboo today is fine tomorrow. A ten year-old comment made in innocence based on the common values of the day can be a career-killer.

The world has gone bonkers. We all realise this. It just goes to show that if you jam eight billion people on a planet, they get in each others' way and build up resentments. Then they look for any excuse to become offended and start a fight.

The more of us there are, the tighter the grip of the political correctness straitjacket.

[LuckyR]

What is politically correct? Who can say? It's a moving feast. What's fine today is taboo tomorrow. What was taboo today is fine tomorrow. A ten year-old comment made in innocence based on the common values of the day can be a career-killer.

The world has gone bonkers. We all realise this. It just goes to show that if you jam eight billion people on a planet, they get in each others' way and build up resentments. Then they look for any excuse to become offended and start a fight.

The more of us there are, the tighter the grip of the political correctness straitjacket.

To my view, the notable aspect of the practice of calling people out and the labeling of such pushback as "PC", is that some have had the (unwarranted) luxury of exercising their right to say whatever they want while their victims did not feel comfortable exercising THEIR right to say what they wanted in response. Now they do. That's the change. That's why it's newsworthy.

[Sy Borg]

What is politically correct? Who can say? It's a moving feast. What's fine today is taboo tomorrow. What was taboo today is fine tomorrow. A ten year-old comment made in innocence based on the common values of the day can be a career-killer.

The world has gone bonkers. We all realise this. It just goes to show that if you jam eight billion people on a planet, they get in each others' way and build up resentments. Then they look for any excuse to become offended and start a fight.

The more of us there are, the tighter the grip of the political correctness straitjacket.

To my view, the notable aspect of the practice of calling people out and the labeling of such pushback as "PC", is that some have had the (unwarranted) luxury of exercising their right to say whatever they want while their victims did not feel comfortable exercising THEIR right to say what they wanted in response. Now they do. That's the change. That's why it's newsworthy.

That's how it started. The whole idea was to treat others decently, that's all. That is no longer the case.

Now racism against whites and sexism against men are not only accepted, but pushed through the mainstream media. People are running around the streets, shouting Kill the Jews" and that is apparently acceptable. Yet, if protest signs ever read "Kill the Arabs" or "Kill the blacks" there would (rightly) be hell to pay.

At this rate, soon it will be cool to discriminate against white males and to persecute Jews again. That is where PC is heading. It's not a correction, it's an attempted changing of the guard.

[Tegularius]

Most often a compendium of what's incorrect.

[popeye1945]

Agreement with the trending movement/moment, following ones emotions rather than a thought process.