Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 19th, 2023, 7:55 am
I sympathise with paedophiles, and believe their orientation to be as 'natural' as any other. It is unfortunate, from their point of view, that their practises cannot be permitted, for reasons that we are all well aware of — children are not capable of consent, and can suffer physical and emotional damage.
What are these "behaviours that are a threat to children"?
Stoppelmann wrote: ↑August 20th, 2023, 1:33 am
Although I am generally in agreement with you, I think that I have as little sympathy with paedophiles as I do with drug addicts that give their drugs to minors.
It doesn't matter which of us is right. But it looks as though you are missing my point. I sympathise with pædophiles, because their preferences seem natural to them. But I also will not tolerate their practises, in total agreement with (almost) everyone else. In the Christian terms I was raised with, I love the sinner, but hate their sins.
I think pædophiles are different from those who would give drugs to minors. The former do what they do because they're wired that way. The latter could
not do what you describe, if they so chose. But your comparison is valid in the sense that we choose — for reasons we believe to be good ones — not to tolerate either of the behaviours you describe.
Stoppelmann wrote: ↑August 20th, 2023, 1:33 am
Addiction can also be seen to be “natural” in that it follows a certain behaviour and can lead to changes in brain chemistry and reward pathways, making it difficult for individuals to control their drug-seeking behaviours. For me, Paedophilia is hedonism out of control, and also a pursuit of pleasure and self-indulgence. It is a psychological disorder, and fortunately, individuals who experience these attractions sometimes suffer from distress and inner conflict due to their feelings, unlike addicts, whose compulsive use of drugs ignore negative consequences.
As I've said, it doesn't matter which of us is right on this point. We have in common our unwillingness to tolerate the behaviours in question, whatever the reasons behind them.
Stoppelmann wrote: ↑August 20th, 2023, 1:33 am
The trans-movement has expanded beyond transsexuals to include any fetishist with an exhibitionist tendency, which means that they are taking to the streets, entering primary schools, and “entertaining” family groups, in an attempt to normalise behaviour which a child would normally never see. This is completely disruptive, just as the attempts to make children aware of sexual attraction even before puberty, something that, without the intervention of adults, wouldn’t cross their minds.
I have not been aware of fetishists using the trans movement to fuel their own predilections. I hope it is not so. There are things in the world that we choose to protect our children from. Often, this is for the benefit of all. But we also try to shield children from the world itself, and choose not to expose our children to stuff that perhaps they should know about.
We only have to look back a generation or two to see that knowledge of any and all sexual practices was withheld, to the dis-benefit of all. Wives found out what sex was on their wedding nights. [This assumes their husbands knew what was what, which might be a misunderstanding on my part.] Today, we realise that this was bad for children kept ignorant in that way.
And I sometimes think that children are a lot more mature than we give them credit for, and we try to shield them from useful information concerning things they are well aware of, even if we would prefer they weren't. We try to avoid in their lives the mistakes we made in our own. Sometimes this is a great idea, and it works well. At other times, though...?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 19th, 2023, 7:55 am
I do not dispute — I'm sure no-one does — that transitioning via gender reassignment surgery is a Very Big Deal, largely because it is, in practice, and as you observe, effectively irreversible. Not only that, but for optimal results, it should be carried out as early as possible, before the subject is sufficiently mature to make an 'adult' decision. This is not an easy minefield to navigate, for young people, or the adults who protect and advise them.
Stoppelmann wrote: ↑August 20th, 2023, 1:33 am
It isn’t just a “Very Big Deal,” it is a violation of the bodies inherent ability to cope with illness, infection, and is prone to complications that destroy a healthy sex-life, in whatever way it may have been expressed. In too many cases, it has been the equivalent to female genital mutilation. The belief that it should be carried out as early as possible is in contradiction to the fact that in such cases, it occurs before the children are able to understand its consequences, and before sexual maturity. If it is then a “minefield” we shouldn’t be sending children out to go through it.
We can't keep our children from the real world's minefields. We can only try to help them deal with these matters as best we can. The rest is up to them, and chance. Many transexuals will tell you they knew their own orientation much earlier than we might have expected. And yes, there are a few who have transitioned, and regret it. We need to embrace one and avoid the other. But that need is just our usual should/ought thinking. We should and will do our best, as we have tried to do in the past, and will continue trying to do in the future. As part of this, I don't see the benefit in trying to keep from our children the information they need.