Philosophy Discussion Forums

Gertie wrote: ↑May 5th, 2023, 9:09 am My question to you would be, per physicalism - if information exists as a thing in itself out in the physical world independent of mind, what does information exist as, which isn't physical stuff, properties, and processes?

Yes, this furthers my point too — information is not "independent of mind". That to which the information refers, though, is likely mind-independent, I think?

You ask what does information exist as, and my answer would be, as itself, just as physical matter exists as itself. Information exists as a concept; an idea. What else is it? Nothing else, that I can see. To me, existence as a concept/idea is sufficient; it is enough. Perhaps I am too undemanding?

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 6th, 2023, 6:58 am

Gertie wrote: ↑May 5th, 2023, 9:09 am My question to you would be, per physicalism - if information exists as a thing in itself out in the physical world independent of mind, what does information exist as, which isn't physical stuff, properties, and processes?

Yes, this furthers my point too — information is not "independent of mind". That to which the information refers, though, is likely mind-independent, I think?

Right, in our everyday physicalist conception of the world, that's the case imo. There's stuff 'out there' which exists, and there's 'internal' mental information about that stuff. You'd have to be saying we live in a different type of universe otherwise, I think.

You ask what does information exist as, and my answer would be, as itself, just as physical matter exists as itself. Information exists as a concept; an idea. What else is it? Nothing else, that I can see. To me, existence as a concept/idea is sufficient; it is enough. Perhaps I am too undemanding?

Yes it exists in our minds. A conceptualised reference to something. Hence 'pure' information about nothing can't exist as a thing in itself.

Gertie wrote: ↑May 6th, 2023, 7:56 am A conceptualised reference to something. Hence 'pure' information about nothing can't exist as a thing in itself.

In fairness, I would observe that "information about nothing" seems to me to be 'no information'. But I don't disagree with what you say.

psycho wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 4:16 pm What is information?

Does information exist without the presence of agents that acquire or produce it?

Is the information produced or collected?

Is the limitation of the medium in which the information is stored the same as the nature of the information itself?

Entropy dilutes information? Or does entropy dilute the fabric of reality from which we distill information?

Is there a difference between reality and the information that represents that reality?

Only some questions because I have not finished putting together a minimum concept of "information" that satisfies me.

Obviously, everything of our apparent reality is information gathered by our sensory complex the body and the understanding. Information is not information without a sensing subject/biology, information by definition provides experience, meanings, and understanding, which is dependent on an outer source and the constitution of the organism/man thus providing us an apparent reality. The difference between reality/apparent and ultimate reality, is ultimate reality is unmanifested energy. Apparent reality is a biological interpretation, a biological readout of how those energies have an effect on the body and its understanding. So, we do not experience the source, we experience the effects of the source. It is a melody the physical world plays upon its instruments' biological organisms, and that melody is apparent reality. Information is produced out of otherwise unmanifested energies that affect the body and the understanding as a biological readout or the melody of apparent reality. Your question, "Is the limitation of the medium in which the information is stored the same as the nature of the information itself." No, the information which is not information in the absence of a conscious biology, becomes information as it effects/alters of the body, again we don't really experience the source only how the source affect/alters our body/biology. "Is the information produced or collected", neither it is experienced.