Philosophy Discussion Forums

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:44 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:14 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 9:07 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:46 pm

Sounds like we are in agreement that natural followers need a leader, whereas the self motivated don't get much out them

I feel not so. Natural Followers or Self Motivated, anyone needs a leader, as Self Motivated may fall into Egoistic Actions out of Ignorance and Misunderstandings. They too have much to get out of leaders, but as you say, they FEEL that "not get much out of them" because of Ego-Ignorance-Misunderstandings.

A common opinion of a natural follower. It is unreasonable to expect a follower to understand the situation of the self motivated. Or to put it another way: do leaders need leaders?

Not One Single Leader is wise enough to choose right decision and action for every situation. They need support of a Group of Leaders (not Leaders but like Wise Sages and Ministers), to consider issue in every side for taking deep decisions related to threats upon Country, War, Judgements, etc.

But, in case of removing Ignorance of reality, One Leader who is well versed and All-time Peaceful is enough. This is not about Action but about Truth, so no need of consultation, as Every Religious Insightful views can lead one to Truth, so One Leader is Enough.

"Ignorance" and "Truth" according to who? The Leader? The Religion? You? (Oh, BTW you might want to have the SHIFT key fixed on your keyboard)

Every member of the One group believes in the One leader, obviously. Our conversation included those who reject the need for validation from the One herd.

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 6:45 pm

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:44 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:14 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 9:07 pm

I feel not so. Natural Followers or Self Motivated, anyone needs a leader, as Self Motivated may fall into Egoistic Actions out of Ignorance and Misunderstandings. They too have much to get out of leaders, but as you say, they FEEL that "not get much out of them" because of Ego-Ignorance-Misunderstandings.

A common opinion of a natural follower. It is unreasonable to expect a follower to understand the situation of the self motivated. Or to put it another way: do leaders need leaders?

Not One Single Leader is wise enough to choose right decision and action for every situation. They need support of a Group of Leaders (not Leaders but like Wise Sages and Ministers), to consider issue in every side for taking deep decisions related to threats upon Country, War, Judgements, etc.

But, in case of removing Ignorance of reality, One Leader who is well versed and All-time Peaceful is enough. This is not about Action but about Truth, so no need of consultation, as Every Religious Insightful views can lead one to Truth, so One Leader is Enough.

"Ignorance" and "Truth" according to who? The Leader? The Religion? You? (Oh, BTW you might want to have the SHIFT key fixed on your keyboard)

Every member of the One group believes in the One leader, obviously. Our conversation included those who reject the need for validation from the One herd.

Ignorance and Truth, is same for all Religions, which coincides in it's deep Scriptures.

When it comes to Leader, let every Religion have Every leader to their own Religion. Let Hinduism have it's Leader, Buddhism have it's Leader, Christianity have it's Leader, etc. But, the leader should be like "Vishnu of Vaishnavism, Shiva of Shaivism, Sakthi of Sakthimani, Buddha of Buddhism, Jehovah, Prophet Mohammed, etc." and understand the scriptures deeply and accurately what it meant, and follow every words and implement them in their sects compassionately without any Ego.
It's the fake Leaders who ruined the purpose of Religion. It's the fake Leaders who didn't rightly implemented every aspect of their religion, for their safety and Power seeking.

Throw away those leaders and Place true One.

But, people can't throw away unless Karma and Intentions of Everyone should be accordingly. That's why it is called Fate, when Past Karmas be such strong.

It's a ruin we had done to ourselves for the society, and have to go through it, and even by falsely ignorantly throwing away Religions it cannot be brought back, as those Fake one's seeking Power out of Greed and Desires will never End as will seek any Ideas to Dominate others. Atheism is also an Idea for them, and they use it to keep supplying people with Drugs and Guns and make them irresponsible, you can't change all these as people have to go through these inevitably unless awareness of these Fake One's (but not Hate upon Religions or Ideas) and punish them and keep them in check was bring into action.

But, people won't do it as of now as they are interested only in "Fun" and showing "Hatred upon Religions, etc." and "Blah Blah Blah", and be ignorant of the activities of those Fake One's like Modi, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, etc.

See, gain and again and again I will point out, that it is not Religions and Traditions are the problem, but the Fake One. The Religions and Traditions are good for the society, and place the Right Leader for every such. War is inevitable, as War has many aspects of Economy, etc. and not just "Religious differentiation or Ideas". Even True Leaders shall enter into war, as Greed of Wealth and Economical Factors have to be put in check.

If people want to live in a War-less Place, "Heaven" or "Brahmaloka" is the rightful place, and seek that, this world is mixture of all and cannot be "War-less and Peaceful" always. Understand the Reality of World and Karma.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 10:53 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 6:45 pm

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:44 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:14 am

A common opinion of a natural follower. It is unreasonable to expect a follower to understand the situation of the self motivated. Or to put it another way: do leaders need leaders?

Not One Single Leader is wise enough to choose right decision and action for every situation. They need support of a Group of Leaders (not Leaders but like Wise Sages and Ministers), to consider issue in every side for taking deep decisions related to threats upon Country, War, Judgements, etc.

But, in case of removing Ignorance of reality, One Leader who is well versed and All-time Peaceful is enough. This is not about Action but about Truth, so no need of consultation, as Every Religious Insightful views can lead one to Truth, so One Leader is Enough.

"Ignorance" and "Truth" according to who? The Leader? The Religion? You? (Oh, BTW you might want to have the SHIFT key fixed on your keyboard)

Every member of the One group believes in the One leader, obviously. Our conversation included those who reject the need for validation from the One herd.

, Sakthi of Sakthimani,

It's "Sakthism".

And, there cannot be validation of one herd to another in medium and low level. Only High level Intelligent Leaders can see it's agreement even in Diversity, but not Ignorant, and it's duty of Leaders to maintain to make them not Hate other Religions and let everyone follow any Religion but seriously and Truthfully and see through that they are not misused. There is no Hatred between Vedic Sages and Buddha, but it's only hatred between followers, as both Sages and Buddh remain Peaceful and Compassionate knowing Karmic plays. Even Jesus has no hatred upon those who crucified him.

The Hatred is there, and really there, because One wants to control "other person" and "world" to be in the way they want to see, but not accept however the world it is and live in it unaffected nd Peaceful. This is what raise of Hatred. This Hatred is not problem of Religions or Ideas or etc., but only of desire of "what-should-be" in World or in their life. If you are a King, and someone throws your power away by Religious things, people soon feel hatred upon such person or Religion or Ideas, but not see that it's their Own Karma can only affect them but not ny other, and also fail to see the "impermanence of World" and "dark side" of any desires.

Even Desiring God, has a Dark side, will bring One's attachment to World and people and Fun aspect, but understanding it and pursuing it seriously without any hesitation to face those dark side, is "Peace".

I don't know why more to say.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 11:05 pm.

Even Desiring God, has a Dark side, will bring One's attachment to World and people and Fun aspect, but understanding it and pursuing it seriously without any hesitation to face those dark side, is "Peace".

I don't know why more to say.

"Even Desiring God, has a Dark side, will bring One's attachment to World and people and Fun aspect to an End - as Fun is not even 1% of Bliss and Peace, but understanding it and pursuing it seriously without any hesitation to face those dark side, is 'Peace'.

I don't know what more to say".

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 6:45 pm

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:44 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:14 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 9:07 pm

I feel not so. Natural Followers or Self Motivated, anyone needs a leader, as Self Motivated may fall into Egoistic Actions out of Ignorance and Misunderstandings. They too have much to get out of leaders, but as you say, they FEEL that "not get much out of them" because of Ego-Ignorance-Misunderstandings.

A common opinion of a natural follower. It is unreasonable to expect a follower to understand the situation of the self motivated. Or to put it another way: do leaders need leaders?

Not One Single Leader is wise enough to choose right decision and action for every situation. They need support of a Group of Leaders (not Leaders but like Wise Sages and Ministers), to consider issue in every side for taking deep decisions related to threats upon Country, War, Judgements, etc.

But, in case of removing Ignorance of reality, One Leader who is well versed and All-time Peaceful is enough. This is not about Action but about Truth, so no need of consultation, as Every Religious Insightful views can lead one to Truth, so One Leader is Enough.

"Ignorance" and "Truth" according to who? The Leader? The Religion? You? (Oh, BTW you might want to have the SHIFT key fixed on your keyboard)

Every member of the One group believes in the One leader, obviously. Our conversation included those who reject the need for validation from the One herd.

Those who reject the need for validation, let them suffer of domination of Dark side of "Freedom" or "Atheist Ideas".
Let them suffer of those Irresponsible people who safeguard themselves in the security of "Being Atheist" and security of "Free to do whatever we want".
Let them have a society of their own. Why do they want to throw away the religions, which few/many people want to be such way?
Let them go to any place they want, and create such society to dance and play around with Women and Drugs and Careless 24/7, but why do they are not letting people who are truly religious to create a society of their own? Why Atheist poking their nose in Theistic Threads in forums? Did I or serious people poked their nose or troubled them going to any Atheist Thread and preaching or converting them? If I let them free to be of their own and deceive themselves in the name of 'freedom', then why they not letting people to follow religion in even religious threads and places? What is the purpose of Atheist to come to a Religious Thread and speaking Atheism or showing hatred upon Religious views?

Do you see now who is not letting free by their ignorance?


See, I don't have Hatred upon Atheists. I can understand their Pain And etc., But they are just Ignorant of truth about Religious views. They want "freedom" to do "whatever". It's good individually for a Good natured One. But, letting this in a Society is Bad as those Egoistic, Greedy misuses Atheism to do "whatever". To control these Careless Attitude in Society, Religion is Necessary, nd if True Compassionate Atheist don't want to live in such society, let them go to somewhere else and form a new society for Themselves but not try to get rid off Religipn itself from whole world.

It's like Lion and Hyena. The Lion King Story.
True Lion King like Mufasa try to keep the Society Peaceful. For that, Hyenas have to be put in Check. If say, Scar like King (Fake Selfish One) takes control of Society and let's Heyna roam free for keeping Power to itself.

Then, say, this Hyenas spread the idea of Freedom saying that "How long these Lions have to be King and Dominate us. Before Mufasa, Now Scar. When we are all going to have a Chance to become Leader and bring order in society by getting rid of Lions?". But, truly, the ruins are not by True Lions and only by Fake Ones and Hyenas (Atheists, Drug Dealers, etc.).

This create a thought in animals, "Lions are all useless. Give Freedom to every animals so let we decide who to be King by voting who favours over Individual needs and Freedom." Now, the thought of Animals, to change Society comes down and only "Individual Desires" increases. Then Hyenas take control of the Forest, by placing Rabbit as a King one day, Snake as a King one day, Even Cockroach as a King one day. Like this goes on and on and on, and Society still faces destruction. Though Society faces destruction, the Individual needa of everyone gets satisfied for limited period and never care about the destruction caused by Hyenas. Even now, the Animals think that, "Lions should not be King as they will not let us be free", but never thinks/look at what Hyenas do to society. This is How Hyenas keep Animals Ignorant with their "Tactics" by "giving opportunity to fulfil individual desires". And what happens is the forest meets destruction in the name of "Freedom".

All these Time, the Animals are ignorant that the Simba is there, and Rafiki is waiting for right time to bring Simba to take control of Forest and bring Peace and create Fear upon those Hyenas.

So, for a better society, it is the need of King like Mufasa and Simba - and Sages like Rafiki to advice rightly, to keep check on both Scar and Hyenas to not let them illusionize Animals for Power, Money, Fun, Freedom.

Life itself has no Freedom. No action can be free.

If one wants freedom, seek Truth but not Life or Earth or Lifely action - as there is no such freedom here. All Hyena spreading Beautiful Illusionizing Thoughts for keeping "Power and control" for themselves. Don't trust those Hyenas.
You also don't have to trust Religions to see this. Buddha never trusted Vedas or study Vedanta. He himself had thrown away all bonds, and found it. It is the Bond of Pleasure those Hyenas show, make you think that "Action out of Freedom is there in World or Life, and have to seek it". But, no such Freedom there, and everyone is bound to individual Karmas. Life is Limitations and Meaningless. Don't trust Hyenas that says "Life has Meaning and Beauty, seek it and fight Religious Dominance".

Is there anything more than this you want to get clarified?

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2023, 1:17 am It's like Lion and Hyena. The Lion King Story.
True Lion King like Mufasa try to keep the Society Peaceful. For that, Hyenas have to be put in Check. If say, Scar like King (Fake Selfish One) takes control of Society and let's Heyna roam free for keeping Power to itself.

Then, say, this Hyenas spread the idea of Freedom saying that "How long these Lions have to be King and Dominate us. Before Mufasa, Now Scar. When we are all going to have a Chance to become Leader and bring order in society by getting rid of Lions?". But, truly, the ruins are not by True Lions and only by Fake Ones and Hyenas (Atheists, Drug Dealers, etc.).

This create a thought in animals, "Lions are all useless. Give Freedom to every animals so let we decide who to be King by voting who favours over Individual needs and Freedom." Now, the thought of Animals, to change Society comes down and only "Individual Desires" increases. Then Hyenas take control of the Forest, by placing Rabbit as a King one day, Snake as a King one day, Even Cockroach as a King one day. Like this goes on and on and on, and Society still faces destruction. Though Society faces destruction, the Individual needa of everyone gets satisfied for limited period and never care about the destruction caused by Hyenas. Even now, the Animals think that, "Lions should not be King as they will not let us be free", but never thinks/look at what Hyenas do to society. This is How Hyenas keep Animals Ignorant with their "Tactics" by "giving opportunity to fulfil individual desires". And what happens is the forest meets destruction in the name of "Freedom".

All these Time, the Animals are ignorant that the Simba is there, and Rafiki is waiting for right time to bring Simba to take control of Forest and bring Peace and create Fear upon those Hyenas.

So, for a better society, it is the need of King like Mufasa and Simba - and Sages like Rafiki to advice rightly, to keep check on both Scar and Hyenas to not let them illusionize Animals for Power, Money, Fun, Freedom.

You do understand that fables aren't Real Life, right ? They're oversimplified stories told to young children who are not equipped to understand gray zones (like Real Life), children can only understand black and white. Real lions are a mix of Mufasa and Scar, in other words there is no real Mufasa. Similarly real hyenas have elements of lions within them.

My prior point is that some adults also have trouble understanding gray areas and need a leader to tell them a simplified story to make the complex able to be (partially) understood. Those are what we called Natural Followers.

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2023, 3:47 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2023, 1:17 am It's like Lion and Hyena. The Lion King Story.
True Lion King like Mufasa try to keep the Society Peaceful. For that, Hyenas have to be put in Check. If say, Scar like King (Fake Selfish One) takes control of Society and let's Heyna roam free for keeping Power to itself.

Then, say, this Hyenas spread the idea of Freedom saying that "How long these Lions have to be King and Dominate us. Before Mufasa, Now Scar. When we are all going to have a Chance to become Leader and bring order in society by getting rid of Lions?". But, truly, the ruins are not by True Lions and only by Fake Ones and Hyenas (Atheists, Drug Dealers, etc.).

This create a thought in animals, "Lions are all useless. Give Freedom to every animals so let we decide who to be King by voting who favours over Individual needs and Freedom." Now, the thought of Animals, to change Society comes down and only "Individual Desires" increases. Then Hyenas take control of the Forest, by placing Rabbit as a King one day, Snake as a King one day, Even Cockroach as a King one day. Like this goes on and on and on, and Society still faces destruction. Though Society faces destruction, the Individual needa of everyone gets satisfied for limited period and never care about the destruction caused by Hyenas. Even now, the Animals think that, "Lions should not be King as they will not let us be free", but never thinks/look at what Hyenas do to society. This is How Hyenas keep Animals Ignorant with their "Tactics" by "giving opportunity to fulfil individual desires". And what happens is the forest meets destruction in the name of "Freedom".

All these Time, the Animals are ignorant that the Simba is there, and Rafiki is waiting for right time to bring Simba to take control of Forest and bring Peace and create Fear upon those Hyenas.

So, for a better society, it is the need of King like Mufasa and Simba - and Sages like Rafiki to advice rightly, to keep check on both Scar and Hyenas to not let them illusionize Animals for Power, Money, Fun, Freedom.

You do understand that fables aren't Real Life, right ? They're oversimplified stories told to young children who are not equipped to understand gray zones (like Real Life), children can only understand black and white. Real lions are a mix of Mufasa and Scar, in other words there is no real Mufasa. Similarly real hyenas have elements of lions within them.

My prior point is that some adults also have trouble understanding gray areas and need a leader to tell them a simplified story to make the complex able to be (partially) understood. Those are what we called Natural Followers.

See, I'm not into all this. I had made you say simple words, but I see only want Simple Funny way so I made it complex. Also, saying no Real Mufasa is also Fable. There lived few who were not really selfish and I know you will again skip to speak about this. You will just skip anything which don't seems fun to you.

You are just evading from the main points I speak about Drugs and Ruin of society, and just attacking Religion without Ignorance. I feel you want only fun with speaking to me, and don't want to see the seriousness of other person, also don't want to enter into serious aspects of Life.

Your escape will come to end One day, but I'm showing that before itself for my attachment with you to not suffer as I thought you would understand seriousness.

But, all you want is "Fun Fun Fun" whatever and wherever and never touch serious one though blessed to go into it. Now, I understand your past. I don't want to know anything more from you, no dialogue, no words like "No. Get out from me". You are just Fun seeker and never want to understand Reality by seeing all aspect of life, but just stick to fun aspect of Life always and suffer at times and again escape and fun and...... Right? Only this Fun, seeks thinks Simple. If you remove that Bonds of Fun, you can understand every Complex Words with seriousness.

Just let me know when you are truly serious and free from bonds of Fun to understand Reality. I think you don't want to let me know. You yourself will know by suffering of your Fun seeking attitude, and understand Reality.

Atlast, I come to know your Intentions and approximation of your past.

First, I was saying, "Have Fun". But, now, "Have Sufferings of your Fun-seeking and stay with such sufferings to understand Reality".

You know what? I thought you would reply to that "Drugs, etc." I spoke about, but only of your reply not touching those shows your "Fun seeking with my serious replies and Fun by insulting others and Fun by every way - and never care what others try to point out seriously".

I don't know how to end our Two years of Conversation. Have a better "Funny" Word?

But, Thank you. You have been rungs in my ladder. But, I feel sorry, that I never been rungs and only a Serious Trouble for your Fun-seeking Attitude.

Just a Reminder that, I truly share everything out of Love, and I know you know that too.

I don't know how to end our Two years of Conversation. Have a better "Funny" Word?

Okay.
Please close this Thread, as it 's Intention is out of "seriousness" and it's against the Forum's Implicate Norms of "Fun Alone".

I'm out.

The Dogma Forum is that way - - > for those seeking an echo chamber.

As to our "two year" conversation... uummm, your 1 month anniversary here is tomorrow...

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2023, 6:00 pm The Dogma Forum is that way - - > for those seeking an echo chamber.

As to our "two year" conversation... uummm, your 1 month anniversary here is tomorrow...

Muahahaha..

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2023, 12:43 pm Okay.
Please close this Thread, as it 's Intention is out of "seriousness" and it's against the Forum's Implicate Norms of "Fun Alone".

I'm out.

Are you saying that you're just here for the laughs, and that your posts reflect this?

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:06 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2023, 12:43 pm Okay.
Please close this Thread, as it 's Intention is out of "seriousness" and it's against the Forum's Implicate Norms of "Fun Alone".

I'm out.

Are you saying that you're just here for the laughs, and that your posts reflect this?

First, I was "serious" due to Attachments.
Now, I'm just having Fun, as Attachments to persons cut off. I'm truly Religious/Spiritual and would never disrespect those Sages/Buddha/Jesus ever, but only say things by words (not from heart) to be flexible.

It's like GOD. GOD is not attached to People, at the same time not averted to Atheist but just having fun with Atheist speaking about Atheism, and magically 'glorify' it though not truly intended to do it, to understood few more things than Conditioned to Life/Fun. It's also like Psychotherapist.

1. Conditioned to Democracy.
2. Conditioned to be Averted to Religions seeing it's harsh side, but fail to see the Dark side of Democracy too of how "Votes" have "both Good and Bad side".
3. I see that one spoke about Women trafficking but not about the whole Porn Industry. It is nothing but conditioned/bound to "Ethical Porn" were there is no such thing. Even Science don't accept such "Ethical Porn" Ideology, but only warn the Addiction and Evil side of whatever from Porn shall be.

So, though I said "I'm out", I know that "Fun" itself cannot be driving factor to them as they are not much Unethical, but some deep conditioning might be, and found it by Disguising as "I'm Atheist too".

Truly, no way I'm gonna support Atheism kind of behaviour in world, because both seeing it's dark side of Carelessness, Drugs, etc., as well as I know "I'm GOD and none other here".

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:06 am Are you saying that you're just here for the laughs, and that your posts reflect this?

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:37 am First, I was "serious" due to Attachments.
Now, I'm just having Fun...

Nearly everyone here has tried, really hard, to understand your viewpoint, and to reply thoughtfully to your posts, no matter how close they seemed to gobbledygook. Now it seems they *were* intentionally gobbledygook, and you're just taking the p*ss out of us and our forum! What a waste of time.