Philosophy Discussion Forums

Sushan wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 2:11 pm

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 12:46 pm

Sushan wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 12:14 pm Thoughts on an afterlife can be a too advanced thought for an animal.

And yet, you are an animal...

Yes, but evolution has taken us to a level that is superior to the fellow animals with regard to intelligence. But we are not the only intelligent animals in the animal kingdom. So we cannot be so sure about other animals not having any advanced thoughts.

Just out of curiosity, how would you assess the intelligence of a chimpanzee? An Orca? Perhaps even a spider? You say that we have surpassed them all, in intelligence. And yet you can't be sure how advanced their thoughts might be? These look like mixed messages, to me.

LOL

Because there is nothing to look forwards to?

Surely intelligent spiders would be worth looking forward to?

Sushan wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 12:14 pm

Tegularius wrote: ↑September 27th, 2022, 7:45 pm

Sushan wrote: ↑September 27th, 2022, 7:05 pm

Tegularius wrote: ↑September 25th, 2022, 4:36 pm

Good question! Even so, humans invariably focus on themselves when it comes to an afterlife and give themselves the priority in everything. The rest of creation doesn't concern itself with any of that it in the least.

Do we really know about how other animals are thinking? I think even science has a long way to go in that field, and we cannot completely rule out the possibility of other animal's thoughts (or feelings kind of) of an after life. I think there is no universal attempt on such an endeavor because after life is not commonly accepted even among humans.

Not absolutely even thought it's extremely unlikely that an "afterlife" would be on the list of what they're thinking about. That requires the kind of consciousness which can imagine an existence beyond itself. The afterlife idea may be ludicrous but it still depends on human intelligence to create such a theory. I'm quite certain to be reasonably safe in thinking that the animal psyche is centered exclusively in the here and now on which its real existence depends...as well as ours.

I agree. Thoughts on an afterlife can be a too advance thought for an animal. Their thoughts are usually centered around survival and living in the present. But, if an afterlife exists, they too should have the chance to have it. And if so, I think they should have the sense or feeling of such an existence, although it is quite impossible for them to have complex thoughts like humans on the matter.

I think so too. But like other animals it is the likes of us who should be consciously aware of the here and now because that's where all our problems are and always have been. If that's mishandled, as it seems to be all over, everything getting massively worse, the future will reflect the moments which created it.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 2:52 pm

Sushan wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 2:11 pm

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 12:46 pm

Sushan wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 12:14 pm Thoughts on an afterlife can be a too advanced thought for an animal.

And yet, you are an animal...

Yes, but evolution has taken us to a level that is superior to the fellow animals with regard to intelligence. But we are not the only intelligent animals in the animal kingdom. So we cannot be so sure about other animals not having any advanced thoughts.

Just out of curiosity, how would you assess the intelligence of a chimpanzee? An Orca? Perhaps even a spider? You say that we have surpassed them all, in intelligence. And yet you can't be sure how advanced their thoughts might be? These look like mixed messages, to me.

Google defines intelligence as,

the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

There are measures that are made to measure human intelligence, like intelligence quotient. But these cannot be applied to other animals. We can compare different species only if we have a common measurement. We cannot compare the ability to climb trees between a chimpanzee and a fish.

And here is a test in which chimpanzees outsmart humans quite often.

https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/chimp

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 4:53 pm LOL

Because there is nothing to look forwards to?

Maybe yes. But that is applicable if the next thing in one's life is death. But no one can know what comes next in our lives. So, I think it needs a better reason.

Sushan wrote: ↑September 30th, 2022, 11:26 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑September 29th, 2022, 4:53 pm LOL

Because there is nothing to look forwards to?

Maybe yes. But that is applicable if the next thing in one's life is death. But no one can know what comes next in our lives. So, I think it needs a better reason.

No.
The thread title asks about when people are close to death. You do not need a better reason than that.

Sushan wrote: ↑September 30th, 2022, 11:25 pm There are measures that are made to measure human intelligence, like intelligence quotient. But these cannot be applied to other animals.

Exactly. So you agree with me, that we have no practical means to assess the intelligence of other animals? And yet you started off by commenting how much more intelligent we humans are.

P.S. There are those who suggest that IQ tests only measure (accurately) the intelligence of white, probably male, subjects from 'Western' countries, at whom the questions are aimed.

Right now I’m as close to death as I’ve ever been and getting closer.
So close some days I swear I can smell it. It smells like my dead grandmothers kitchen.
There are nights when I wake in a hot flush thinking I’ve punctured the water bed - and I don’t have one.
My mind is filled with shrapnels of memory for the past 73 years. I try my best but I cannot remember anything from the first 3 years.
I’m grateful for that. The last thing I want to recall is my own birth, **** my pants, bawling my eyes out and having nothing to recall.

How sweet it is to remember. Good and bad, informed and I’ll informed, love and hate, growth and deterioration (which is the final stage I’m in right now).
What am I other than a bag and bones container for what I’m have done?
Of late the episodes that wake me focus on the embarrassing moments. What was I thinking when I did that? There’s even a fleeting thought that I might like to undo most of them. Then I am what I am because of those things as well as the rest.
There is one disadvantage to this ageing recall: thinking my body can still do that which I did when I was young.
Oh, how it hurts to be elderly and think young. Literally. Still, I always have something to look forward to each day: a new bruise, some gravel rash, a creak or crack in a rib or radius, a chance to chat the the radiologist at ER who is very attractive and informs me of the inspiration she received having me as her teacher. Now that’s a memory I’m happy to recall any time.

So, now I can recline in my therapeutic chair and daydream of all the times I was learning to be me. I’m content with the outcome and am ready to finish with a smile on my face.

Tommo wrote: ↑October 7th, 2022, 10:25 pm Right now I’m as close to death as I’ve ever been and getting closer.
So close some days I swear I can smell it. It smells like my dead grandmothers kitchen.
There are nights when I wake in a hot flush thinking I’ve punctured the water bed - and I don’t have one.
My mind is filled with shrapnels of memory for the past 73 years. I try my best but I cannot remember anything from the first 3 years.
I’m grateful for that. The last thing I want to recall is my own birth, **** my pants, bawling my eyes out and having nothing to recall.

How sweet it is to remember. Good and bad, informed and I’ll informed, love and hate, growth and deterioration (which is the final stage I’m in right now).
What am I other than a bag and bones container for what I’m have done?
Of late the episodes that wake me focus on the embarrassing moments. What was I thinking when I did that? There’s even a fleeting thought that I might like to undo most of them. Then I am what I am because of those things as well as the rest.
There is one disadvantage to this ageing recall: thinking my body can still do that which I did when I was young.
Oh, how it hurts to be elderly and think young. Literally. Still, I always have something to look forward to each day: a new bruise, some gravel rash, a creak or crack in a rib or radius, a chance to chat the the radiologist at ER who is very attractive and informs me of the inspiration she received having me as her teacher. Now that’s a memory I’m happy to recall any time.

So, now I can recline in my therapeutic chair and daydream of all the times I was learning to be me. I’m content with the outcome and am ready to finish with a smile on my face.

I'm glad you have returned to these forums Tommo. It has given me great pleasure to read all your evocative and funny posts.

I like the philosophy that comes through this particular post, that it is sweet to remember 'all the times I was learning to be me'. We try to make the most of what we have, and one good thing about getting older is we have more material to work with. It may seem a curse at times, 'to be elderly and think young', but perhaps the purpose of a body which ages and deteriorates is precisely to shift the focus to our mind. Anyway I am glad to read that you are content with the outcome.

Hope I get to smell Grandma's kitchen too. Not that she was a great cook - in fact Mum reckons she was one of the worst, ever - but I remember her giant teapot, and how much I loved a cuppa with her. Wouldn't it be great to see our Grandmas again? We can only hope.