Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[heracleitos]

Or is it a 'made-up' reason for getting attracted towards or falling in love with someone when it is impossible to deliver a rational reason?

It is related to the scarcity mind set.

It means that you have run into a pretty girl, e.g. a seven or an eight, and that you are afraid that you will never find one again. So, you overly start fixating on getting the one specimen that you can see in front of you, right now. That won't work.

The solution is to use an effective protocol in order to switch to an abundance mindset.

A friend of mine is doing that right now, on my advice.

He has placed an online advert on a job site for a "university student to teach local language to a foreign expat."

On average, he interviews around 5 girls per week for the job (he doesn't reply to male candidates). The idea is to hire really pretty ones for one or a few hours per week of teaching, so that he can learn a bit more of the local language while sitting together in some kind of Starbucks and drinking coffee. My friend intends to use two or three of these "teachers" simultaneously. If after a month, no beginning of a romantic connection has started emerging with a particular "teacher", then he will replace her by another one. Other and better.

Since the probability that a girl reciprocates to his own initial romantic interest is non-zero, it is a numbers game that always finishes in a win. You can prove this property for the protocol described above from Pascal's Gambler's Ruin Theorem. In the meanwhile, he will also pick up bits and bobs of a local Asian language. That is also useful. I speak local language fluently, and I use it all the time to pick up women.

[LuckyR]

Or is it a 'made-up' reason for getting attracted towards or falling in love with someone when it is impossible to deliver a rational reason?

It is related to the scarcity mind set.

It means that you have run into a pretty girl, e.g. a seven or an eight, and that you are afraid that you will never find one again. So, you overly start fixating on getting the one specimen that you can see in front of you, right now. That won't work.

The solution is to use an effective protocol in order to switch to an abundance mindset.

A friend of mine is doing that right now, on my advice.

He has placed an online advert on a job site for a "university student to teach local language to a foreign expat."

On average, he interviews around 5 girls per week for the job (he doesn't reply to male candidates). The idea is to hire really pretty ones for one or a few hours per week of teaching, so that he can learn a bit more of the local language while sitting together in some kind of Starbucks and drinking coffee. My friend intends to use two or three of these "teachers" simultaneously. If after a month, no beginning of a romantic connection has started emerging with a particular "teacher", then he will replace her by another one. Other and better.

Since the probability that a girl reciprocates to his own initial romantic interest is non-zero, it is a numbers game that always finishes in a win. You can prove this property for the protocol described above from Pascal's Gambler's Ruin Theorem. In the meanwhile, he will also pick up bits and bobs of a local Asian language. That is also useful. I speak local language fluently, and I use it all the time to pick up women.

So when language guy finds his pretty teacher who likes him, how is he different from what the OP is describing?

[heracleitos]

So when language guy finds his pretty teacher who likes him, how is he different from what the OP is describing?

The difference is that in a protocol-driven numbers game, you are not doing something irrational.

A man does not irrationally 'fall in love" with any particular girl when faced with an endless stream of equivalent candidates.That does not happen. On the contrary, in that case it rather becomes a question of maximizing conversion in the qualified traffic. So, the man will tend to keep his options open.

Furthermore, one major second-order effect is that the protocol generates social proof.

According to standard manosphere theory, if a woman sees that you are surrounded by lots of other pretty women, she will consider you to be a high value male, and she will instinctively seek to compete with these other women. That is considered to be a standard reaction that is preprogrammed in her biological firmware.

What's more, given the situation of abundance, you can easily ignore or even reject her. That acts like a red flag on a bull, because women, especially young and pretty ones, are not used to being rejected. It will quickly dawn upon her that she can't get you, or certainly not easily. So, now she wants you even more.

Seriously, there is nothing irrational about these things. It is actually very solid and hard math.

[LuckyR]

So when language guy finds his pretty teacher who likes him, how is he different from what the OP is describing?

The difference is that in a protocol-driven numbers game, you are not doing something irrational.

A man does not irrationally 'fall in love" with any particular girl when faced with an endless stream of equivalent candidates.That does not happen. On the contrary, in that case it rather becomes a question of maximizing conversion in the qualified traffic. So, the man will tend to keep his options open.

Furthermore, one major second-order effect is that the protocol generates social proof.

According to standard manosphere theory, if a woman sees that you are surrounded by lots of other pretty women, she will consider you to be a high value male, and she will instinctively seek to compete with these other women. That is considered to be a standard reaction that is preprogrammed in her biological firmware.

What's more, given the situation of abundance, you can easily ignore or even reject her. That acts like a red flag on a bull, because women, especially young and pretty ones, are not used to being rejected. It will quickly dawn upon her that she can't get you, or certainly not easily. So, now she wants you even more.

Seriously, there is nothing irrational about these things. It is actually very solid and hard math.

Apples and oranges. There are those seeking marriage and those who want to play the field. If language guy wants to play the field, he's the wrong example in a topic of starting long term relationships. If language guy wants a long term relationship, how he found his mate doesn't impact how he starts the relationship.

[heracleitos]

If language guy wants a long term relationship, how he found his mate doesn't impact how he starts the relationship.

No, it does matter a lot. It must be the predictable result of your systematic approach. A relationship only continues long term, when the balance of power is and remains heavily tilted in the man's advantage. Otherwise, she will end up monkey branching away from him. Therefore, he must make sure that other women keep chasing him, in order to keep her walking on egg shells. In the end, she is only with him, because other women wanted him too. Therefore, as a man, you cannot allow the political situation with your woman to deteriorate. As long as you are able to very easily replace her, you won't have to. The harsh reality is that if you do not dominate her completely, she will start looking for another man who does.

[LuckyR]

If language guy wants a long term relationship, how he found his mate doesn't impact how he starts the relationship.

No, it does matter a lot. It must be the predictable result of your systematic approach. A relationship only continues long term, when the balance of power is and remains heavily tilted in the man's advantage. Otherwise, she will end up monkey branching away from him. Therefore, he must make sure that other women keep chasing him, in order to keep her walking on egg shells. In the end, she is only with him, because other women wanted him too. Therefore, as a man, you cannot allow the political situation with your woman to deteriorate. As long as you are able to very easily replace her, you won't have to. The harsh reality is that if you do not dominate her completely, she will start looking for another man who does.

Well if all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail. If all of your relationships are based on a severe financially based power imbalance, then of course they fall apart when there is balance. Or put another way, if she's only hanging out with you for the money, she'll leave if you become as poor as she is. That's obvious. Just don't apply the same premise to relationships based on other dynamics.

[heracleitos]

Or put another way, if she's only hanging out with you for the money

Yes, because that works the best for both of us. I don't expect anyone who works for me to do that for free. In the end, providing high-quality sexual tension relief to your man is real work.

she'll leave if you become as poor as she is.

If your employer goes bankrupt, would you keep working for them for free? In what world would that make sense?

Furthermore, you can actually ask any man about that. If you can no longer provide, she will move on.

Just don't apply the same premise to relationships based on other dynamics.

Relationships based on other dynamics are an illusion.

A woman only loves what a man can do for her. Of course, women are preprogrammed to believe in their own lies. So, I do not doubt that a woman who says that she wouldn't move on when the man becomes useless to her, really believes it.

As a man, on the other hand, I have no use for romanticized delusional bullsh.it. I clearly tell the woman that no more sexual tension relief will always translate into no more financial tension relief.

She can only get what she wants from me as long as I keep getting what I want from her. Why would it be any different, the other way around?

It is free-market sexual capitalism that works best for me. I am simply not interested in sexual socialism.

[Meta Island]

This topic is about the August 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy

It was a feeling you hear a lot from people describing what they experienced meeting the love of their life—something I’d always dismissed as exaggeration and being overly sentimental. But I truly felt like I’d met her before, as if I already knew her intimately, and was just re-meeting her after a long separation.

(Location 217 - Kindle version)

The concept of 'love on the first sight' is another concept that is found in literature of romance genre. Occasionally, like this author, people claim of having this feeling or the moment.

Is it a real thing? Or is it a 'made-up' reason for getting attracted towards or falling in love with someone when it is impossible to deliver a rational reason? Or is it a variation of the Deja vu phenomenan?

Tough crowd Analysis thankfully put aside, the following “only” addresses the question of whether there is such a thing as love at first sight.

- Sayeth John Sebastian of the Lovin’ Spoonful:

You came upon a quiet day
You simply seemed to take your place
I knew that it would be that way
The minute that I saw your face

- Sayeth Bryant and Green:

Maria
I've just met a girl named Maria
And suddenly that name
Will never be the same to me

Maria
I've just kissed a girl named Maria
And suddenly I've found
How wonderful a sound can be

Maria
Say it loud and there's music playing
Say it soft and it's almost like praying

- Sayeth Rogers and Hammerstein:

Some enchanted evening, you may see a stranger,
You may see a stranger across a crowded room,
And somehow you know, you know even then,
That somehow you'll see her again and again.

Some enchanted evening, someone may be laughing,
You may hear her laughing across a crowded room,
And night after night, as strange as it seems,
The sound of her laughter will sing in your dreams.

- Sayeth Rogers and Hart:

It seems we stood and talked like this before
We looked at each other in the same way then
But I can't remember where or when

The clothes you're wearing are the clothes you wore
The smile you are smiling you were smiling then
But I can't remember where or when

Some things that happen for the first time
Seem to be happening again
And so it seems that we have met before
And laughed before
And loved before
But who knows where or when

[Count Lucanor]

Is it a real thing? Or is it a 'made-up' reason for getting attracted towards or falling in love with someone when it is impossible to deliver a rational reason? Or is it a variation of the Deja vu phenomenan?

What do you mean by "is it a real thing"?

One can judge these matters from personal experience more than anything else. I have felt many times that "love at first sight" (and some variants, like love at first conversation). What it feels is as if one knew a long-term romantic commitment is possible with that person right away, without the usual protocols of knowing each other and taking time to build mutual chemistry. This time the chemistry is already there, introduced by pure perception, without further engagement. Of course that's our brain and its neurochemicals fooling us, and with some experience in life one begins to take cautiously these sudden episodes of sensory infatuation as sublimation of our sex drives. All romantic love is that, anyway, but at least when people engage in courtship they have time to weigh the pros and cons of having a relationship.

[Onyinyechi]

Love at first is a concept I will never believe in. The definition of love is broader than what many assume it to be. I doubt you will be willing to do things you would do for the people you genuinely love for someone you are just meeting for the first time. Love is like a seed. It grows with time.

[Mounce574]

This topic is about the August 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy

It was a feeling you hear a lot from people describing what they experienced meeting the love of their life—something I’d always dismissed as exaggeration and being overly sentimental. But I truly felt like I’d met her before, as if I already knew her intimately, and was just re-meeting her after a long separation.

(Location 217 - Kindle version)

The concept of 'love on the first sight' is another concept that is found in literature of romance genre. Occasionally, like this author, people claim of having this feeling or the moment.

Is it a real thing? Or is it a 'made-up' reason for getting attracted towards or falling in love with someone when it is impossible to deliver a rational reason? Or is it a variation of the Deja vu phenomenan?

I don't think it is possible to love someone at first sight. I believe it is more lust which many people mistake as love. The sight of someone attractive isn't enough to actually form an opinion of who that person really is. Looks will fade eventually, but the personality, emotions, and attitude will still be there. The question would be are those going to be strong enough to continue the bond between two people.

[Stoppelmann]

This topic is about the August 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy

It was a feeling you hear a lot from people describing what they experienced meeting the love of their life—something I’d always dismissed as exaggeration and being overly sentimental. But I truly felt like I’d met her before, as if I already knew her intimately, and was just re-meeting her after a long separation.

(Location 217 - Kindle version)

I have experienced that this is real, and if it doesn’t happen to everyone on first sight, a recognition of one’s love grows as we begin to understand each other as soulmates, as belonging together, and between us an enchantment arises, above and beyond knowing in the way we know our neighbour, and becomes instead a deeper communion of souls.

If, over the years, we maintain this bond with each other and do not burden it with expectations that the other has to fulfil, but make plans that both work on together, love becomes a deep and intuitive unity, "one flesh" as it says in the Bible, and every emotion is felt by the other. We begin to notice how one expresses the thoughts of the other, or how the question that one has in mind is answered by the other before it is spoken. It has some features like a Deja Vue, but only insofar as it is a strange experience that seems to come out of nowhere.