Philosophy Discussion Forums

Scott wrote: ↑February 18th, 2021, 6:39 pm To summarize the additional suggestions to add to our list of possible favorite criminals, I noted these nominations:

DB Cooper, nominated by @HJCarden

Spartacus, nominated by @Sculptor1

Johannes Kepler and his mum, nominated by @Steve3007

Georges-Jacques Danton, nominated by @LuckyR


If I missed any other nominations, let me know!


I also asked a similar question on Twitter and recieved the following additional suggestions of criminals via Twitter:

- Jesse James

- Dr OYENUSI

- Bridget Bishop


Finally, while I didn't include him in the original poll, I think Henry David Thoreau deserves a mention, especially considering he is literally the author of Civil Disobedience.

you missed Robin Hood and Batman.

Scott wrote: ↑February 16th, 2021, 4:17 pm Who is your favorite criminal from history? Why?

It's a tough pick. To my mind come now Giordano Bruno or Che Guevara. Why? They showed courage when pursuing the right causes.

Scott wrote: ↑February 16th, 2021, 4:17 pm Do you also think that person was the most heroic criminal from history? If not, who do you think was the most heroic criminal from history?

Can't tell none of these. How can we quantify levels of heroism objectively? Perhaps the ultimate level is sacrificing your own life, but since a lot of people have done it, no one could rise above the others in heroism.

Scott wrote: ↑February 16th, 2021, 4:17 pm If you were put in the same or very similar circumstances as these criminals, would you hope to make the same choices as some or all of these criminals? Why or why not? What role does bravery play in your answer, meaning in your hypothetical choice about whether or not to follow in the criminal footsteps of these criminals? In other words, if you were hypothetically a much more courageous person how would that change your answer if at all?

None of them really succeeded in their efforts (except to achieve immortality for themselves), perhaps because in the short run the system always wins, so I guess I would do something that looked less spectacularly heroic, but more effective.

Scott wrote: ↑February 18th, 2021, 6:39 pm To summarize the additional suggestions to add to our list of possible favorite criminals, I noted these nominations:

DB Cooper, nominated by @HJCarden

Spartacus, nominated by @Sculptor1

Johannes Kepler and his mum, nominated by @Steve3007

Georges-Jacques Danton, nominated by @LuckyR


If I missed any other nominations, let me know!


I also asked a similar question on Twitter and recieved the following additional suggestions of criminals via Twitter:

- Jesse James

- Dr OYENUSI

- Bridget Bishop


Finally, while I didn't include him in the original poll, I think Henry David Thoreau deserves a mention, especially considering he is literally the author of Civil Disobedience.

Sounds like we are going with the definition of criminal, anyone who was found to have broken a law (as opposed to a professional criminal who makes their living from crime), right?

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 19th, 2021, 2:49 am

Scott wrote: ↑February 18th, 2021, 6:39 pm To summarize the additional suggestions to add to our list of possible favorite criminals, I noted these nominations:

DB Cooper, nominated by @HJCarden

Spartacus, nominated by @Sculptor1

Johannes Kepler and his mum, nominated by @Steve3007

Georges-Jacques Danton, nominated by @LuckyR


If I missed any other nominations, let me know!


I also asked a similar question on Twitter and recieved the following additional suggestions of criminals via Twitter:

- Jesse James

- Dr OYENUSI

- Bridget Bishop


Finally, while I didn't include him in the original poll, I think Henry David Thoreau deserves a mention, especially considering he is literally the author of Civil Disobedience.

Sounds like we are going with the definition of criminal, anyone who was found to have broken a law (as opposed to a professional criminal who makes their living from crime), right?

The concept of "devil" qualifies as one under that definition. It was always against the establishment. There is a great documentary about the evolution of the concept.

OK, then I nominate the good people of Bristol (UK), who got fed up of a statue that glorified a slaver, that black citizens had to walk past every day. For years, requests were made to remove it, but they were ignored. [ Would Jewish citizens have been expected to walk past a statue of Dr Mengele on their way to and from work every day? No, they **** well would not! ] And so the people of Bristol took the law into their own hands - i.e. they broke the law - and they pulled down the statue. I nominate them.

Pattern-chaser wrote:OK, then I nominate the good people of Bristol (UK)

Interesting one. So far we've had individuals, individuals and their mums, fictitious people, groups of people and abstract concepts. (That last one was the suggestion that the economy should be nominated.). So a good bit of variety.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 19th, 2021, 12:21 pm OK, then I nominate the good people of Bristol (UK), who got fed up of a statue that glorified a slaver, that black citizens had to walk past every day. For years, requests were made to remove it, but they were ignored. [ Would Jewish citizens have been expected to walk past a statue of Dr Mengele on their way to and from work every day? No, they **** well would not! ] And so the people of Bristol took the law into their own hands - i.e. they broke the law - and they pulled down the statue. I nominate them.

I admire those folks, but they were followers of a movement, not the originators.

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 19th, 2021, 2:49 am Sounds like we are going with the definition of criminal, anyone who was found to have broken a law (as opposed to a professional criminal who makes their living from crime), right?

Yes, these are the definitions I am using:

Merriam-Webster wrote: criminal noun
1 : one who has committed a crime

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criminal

Merriam-Webster wrote: crime noun

1 : an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crime

I nominate Frederick Douglass. As Trump says, "he's done an amazing job."

I hope he's not disqualified on the technicality that he wasn't a criminal. I assume that in the South his running away made him one, and just not a piece of stray property.

But although he was heroic, I wouldn't say he was the most heroic. To the extent that comparisons can be make, I'd reserve that label for any of a number of people who willingly walked into the flames, as it were.

I also find it impossible to pick a most heroic for reasons that someone else has already expressed. Once you get to a certain level of horror, the heroism required to encounter it is all pretty much the same. But if I had to choose, just because I recently came across her I'd go with Marguerite Porete, who refused to recant and was burned at the stake for writing about her love of God in a frowned upon manner. The fact that I consider her cause a silly one doesn't detract from her heroism.

And no way would I have made the same choice as any of those heroes who decided that being burned alive, or whatever, was the thing for him or her. Bravery aside, I'm not a fan of spitting into the wind. Plus, I am a coward.

Scott wrote: ↑February 19th, 2021, 4:18 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 19th, 2021, 2:49 am Sounds like we are going with the definition of criminal, anyone who was found to have broken a law (as opposed to a professional criminal who makes their living from crime), right?

Yes, these are the definitions I am using:

Merriam-Webster wrote: criminal noun
1 : one who has committed a crime

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criminal

Merriam-Webster wrote: crime noun

1 : an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crime

Well by that definition (committed vs convicted) you may as well change the question to: who is your favorite person.

I would also like to mention Arnold Abbott who was famously repeatedly arrested for the crime of feeding the homeless.

BobS wrote: ↑February 20th, 2021, 2:33 am I nominate Frederick Douglass. As Trump says, "he's done an amazing job."

I hope he's not disqualified on the technicality that he wasn't a criminal. I assume that in the South his running away made him one, and just not a piece of stray property.

I accept the nomination.

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 20th, 2021, 4:12 am

Scott wrote: ↑February 19th, 2021, 4:18 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 19th, 2021, 2:49 am Sounds like we are going with the definition of criminal, anyone who was found to have broken a law (as opposed to a professional criminal who makes their living from crime), right?

Yes, these are the definitions I am using:

Merriam-Webster wrote: criminal noun
1 : one who has committed a crime

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criminal

Merriam-Webster wrote: crime noun

1 : an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crime

Well by that definition (committed vs convicted) you may as well change the question to: who is your favorite person.

True, and a wise point.

I am reminded of the following excerpt from the book Atlas Shrugged, which I read about 16 years ago as a teenager, so even though I am not personally an Ayn Rand Stan, it is saying something for this particular excerpt to have stuck with me for all these years:

Ayn Rand wrote:Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt.

Hitler. Hands down. Dude had awesome black magic going on

D B Cooper.

His was a cool caper. He took risk—all of those parachutes could have been bogus. He stole from the rich (and kept it all for himself). His very identity was a mystery at the time of his crime. His scheme could have been genius if not for a number of overlooked details .

Not heroic but I think he's cool. Pablo Escobar raided the supreme court with tanks and destroyed evidence against him he got the country to let him build his own prison because they feared him, no one even comes close to don Pablo. Please don't judge me.

As a list of criminals, this leaves a lot to be desired. The choices should have been along the lines of Jack the Ripper, Charles Manson, Jesse James, etc.