Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sy Borg]

Yes, it's best to use short paras and sentences for any material being read on a screen. I consider this a kindness to readers. One's eyes get tired and need that extra whitespace. Not having your screen too bright and reducing the blue light component of your display can help with eye fatigue.

I'm a fan of short paragraphs, anyway. It's about having empathy for your readers. It's complicated business to interpret small black marks on a page as meaningful letters, words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs, pages and chapters that make up a story, whose meaning/s and nuances we simultaneously juggle in our minds.

It depends, Lone Wolf. Not long ago I wasted six hundred dollars on a creative writing course in Sydney. The trouble was that I'm interested in sci fi and speculative fiction but the the instructor was a renowned crime novelist who clearly detested sci fi. Once she found out my interests she snubbed me throughout while focusing on those in the class writing about crime or human interest stories. I could see there was no point asking her to read my manuscript.

The experience impacted on my confidence and stole some of the momentum and belief I had in my short stories. It took months to regather my equilibrium and mojo - and the information provided in the course was obvious anyway. All the info is online if you are disciplined.

It's well worth checking up on writing instructors to make sure that you won't be an ignored paying bum on a seat subsidising the instruction of "inner sanctum" students. Note that best selling authors won't necessarily have the equivalent capacities as a teacher.

I am sorry that you had a bad experience in a creative writing course. I did some and found them variable. The last one I went to al few years ago, by a published author was the most unhelpful. That is because he had a fairly rigid formula and it froze my own writing process for such a long time. In some ways, an unhelpful class can we worse than none at all.

I did find a writing group before lockdown, which was fairly useful and hope to find one again. But, finding the right one is sometimes difficult. I experiment with various genres and it does seem that a lot of people in creative writing circles shun science fiction, almost as if it is a bit 'nerdy', which seems rather elitist. I have found that some people in creative writing circles, including some tutors almost encourage 'purple prose' under the category of literary fiction.

Yes, drama, crime and romance fans tend to scorn anything about space or non-human entities. Their reaction is like a muted version of how the KKK would view black fiction. They see it as socially primitive. Lesser. Stupid. To them, only human relationships are interesting or deep.

The snobbery is based on anthropocentrism. Naturally, any contempt held held by human supremacists for the non-human has a tendency to expand into contempt for "lesser humans".

I see some sense in encouraging purple prose in young writers, though. As an analogy, young musicians often overplay because they are pushing to expand their musical vocabulary. Once those building blocks are in place, then they can use those skills to be expressive rather than just showing off.

[Sculptor1]

By all means use short pithy and ambiguous statements on Twitter and elsewhere. But it might be worth reflecting that such practice may well be the reason why there is so much antagonism and aggression in the world of social media.

So you don't subscribe to the idea that Twitter is a bit like haiku, where the short length is said to contribute to poetic creativity?

I have never thought of Twitter and poetic in the same moment.

[JackDaydream]

Yes, it's best to use short paras and sentences for any material being read on a screen. I consider this a kindness to readers. One's eyes get tired and need that extra whitespace. Not having your screen too bright and reducing the blue light component of your display can help with eye fatigue.

I'm a fan of short paragraphs, anyway. It's about having empathy for your readers. It's complicated business to interpret small black marks on a page as meaningful letters, words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs, pages and chapters that make up a story, whose meaning/s and nuances we simultaneously juggle in our minds.

It depends, Lone Wolf. Not long ago I wasted six hundred dollars on a creative writing course in Sydney. The trouble was that I'm interested in sci fi and speculative fiction but the the instructor was a renowned crime novelist who clearly detested sci fi. Once she found out my interests she snubbed me throughout while focusing on those in the class writing about crime or human interest stories. I could see there was no point asking her to read my manuscript.

The experience impacted on my confidence and stole some of the momentum and belief I had in my short stories. It took months to regather my equilibrium and mojo - and the information provided in the course was obvious anyway. All the info is online if you are disciplined.

It's well worth checking up on writing instructors to make sure that you won't be an ignored paying bum on a seat subsidising the instruction of "inner sanctum" students. Note that best selling authors won't necessarily have the equivalent capacities as a teacher.

I am sorry that you had a bad experience in a creative writing course. I did some and found them variable. The last one I went to al few years ago, by a published author was the most unhelpful. That is because he had a fairly rigid formula and it froze my own writing process for such a long time. In some ways, an unhelpful class can we worse than none at all.

I did find a writing group before lockdown, which was fairly useful and hope to find one again. But, finding the right one is sometimes difficult. I experiment with various genres and it does seem that a lot of people in creative writing circles shun science fiction, almost as if it is a bit 'nerdy', which seems rather elitist. I have found that some people in creative writing circles, including some tutors almost encourage 'purple prose' under the category of literary fiction.

Yes, drama, crime and romance fans tend to scorn anything about space or non-human entities. Their reaction is like a muted version of how the KKK would view black fiction. They see it as socially primitive. Lesser. Stupid. To them, only human relationships are interesting or deep.

The snobbery is based on anthropocentrism. Naturally, any contempt held held by human supremacists for the non-human has a tendency to expand into contempt for "lesser humans".

I see some sense in encouraging purple prose in young writers, though. As an analogy, young musicians often overplay because they are pushing to expand their musical vocabulary. Once those building blocks are in place, then they can use those skills to be expressive rather than just showing off.

It is a fine line between purple prose and minimalism, especially what works and doesn't, especially in relation to different audiences. I think that I got carried away writing my nursing notes at times as I got accused of doing 'creative writing' in them. Even with philosophy I probably drift off into purple prose at times because I have a rambling kind of mind.

One term course which I enjoyed was a creative non fiction course, which looked at image-based writing. The reading was interesting too, as we looked at Truman Capote and a fictional account of the life of the child prodigy singer, Lena Zavaroni, who died from anorexia.I find the blurring of fiction and non-fiction an interesting experimental area.

Writing has probably changed a lot with so much on-line. It is probably a lot more minimalist with staring at screens. I do download a lot of fiction, ranging from science fiction, fantasy, steampunk and post-apocalyptic/ dystopian genres and styles of writing are often much simpler than in older books. What has changed is that so many writers who probably wouldn't have got published have managed to write e-books. Also, sites such as this give a chance for us to do daily philosophy writing practice to share and exchange ideas with others from so many people across the world.

[Sy Borg]

Yes, it's best to use short paras and sentences for any material being read on a screen. I consider this a kindness to readers. One's eyes get tired and need that extra whitespace. Not having your screen too bright and reducing the blue light component of your display can help with eye fatigue.

I'm a fan of short paragraphs, anyway. It's about having empathy for your readers. It's complicated business to interpret small black marks on a page as meaningful letters, words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs, pages and chapters that make up a story, whose meaning/s and nuances we simultaneously juggle in our minds.

It depends, Lone Wolf. Not long ago I wasted six hundred dollars on a creative writing course in Sydney. The trouble was that I'm interested in sci fi and speculative fiction but the the instructor was a renowned crime novelist who clearly detested sci fi. Once she found out my interests she snubbed me throughout while focusing on those in the class writing about crime or human interest stories. I could see there was no point asking her to read my manuscript.

The experience impacted on my confidence and stole some of the momentum and belief I had in my short stories. It took months to regather my equilibrium and mojo - and the information provided in the course was obvious anyway. All the info is online if you are disciplined.

It's well worth checking up on writing instructors to make sure that you won't be an ignored paying bum on a seat subsidising the instruction of "inner sanctum" students. Note that best selling authors won't necessarily have the equivalent capacities as a teacher.

I am sorry that you had a bad experience in a creative writing course. I did some and found them variable. The last one I went to al few years ago, by a published author was the most unhelpful. That is because he had a fairly rigid formula and it froze my own writing process for such a long time. In some ways, an unhelpful class can we worse than none at all.

I did find a writing group before lockdown, which was fairly useful and hope to find one again. But, finding the right one is sometimes difficult. I experiment with various genres and it does seem that a lot of people in creative writing circles shun science fiction, almost as if it is a bit 'nerdy', which seems rather elitist. I have found that some people in creative writing circles, including some tutors almost encourage 'purple prose' under the category of literary fiction.

Yes, drama, crime and romance fans tend to scorn anything about space or non-human entities. Their reaction is like a muted version of how the KKK would view black fiction. They see it as socially primitive. Lesser. Stupid. To them, only human relationships are interesting or deep.

The snobbery is based on anthropocentrism. Naturally, any contempt held held by human supremacists for the non-human has a tendency to expand into contempt for "lesser humans".

I see some sense in encouraging purple prose in young writers, though. As an analogy, young musicians often overplay because they are pushing to expand their musical vocabulary. Once those building blocks are in place, then they can use those skills to be expressive rather than just showing off.

It is a fine line between purple prose and minimalism, especially what works and doesn't, especially in relation to different audiences. I think that I got carried away writing my nursing notes at times as I got accused of doing 'creative writing' in them. Even with philosophy I probably drift off into purple prose at times because I have a rambling kind of mind.

One term course which I enjoyed was a creative non fiction course, which looked at image-based writing. The reading was interesting too, as we looked at Truman Capote and a fictional account of the life of the child prodigy singer, Lena Zavaroni, who died from anorexia.I find the blurring of fiction and non-fiction an interesting experimental area.

Writing has probably changed a lot with so much on-line. It is probably a lot more minimalist with staring at screens. I do download a lot of fiction, ranging from science fiction, fantasy, steampunk and post-apocalyptic/ dystopian genres and styles of writing are often much simpler than in older books. What has changed is that so many writers who probably wouldn't have got published have managed to write e-books. Also, sites such as this give a chance for us to do daily philosophy writing practice to share and exchange ideas with others from so many people across the world.

Yes, I like that blend of the real and unreal. Some writers say that, if you have unreal elements to a story, then they will be most effective if every other aspect of the story is thoroughly realistic and grounded.

[Ecurb]

The British novelist Kingsley Amis was asked how novelists could improve their writing.

His answer: "Never mention clouds."

[Sy Borg]

Unless writing about major storms or tornadoes :)

[Pattern-chaser]

Write how you speak. Write about what you know.
Those are the two pieces of advice that have allowed me to improve my writing.

Spoken language is less formal than written. So, if we write as we speak, the results may not be appropriate for all circumstances. I imagine that for some fiction, writing as we speak could work well, but if the aim is something more formal, our presentation won't always work as well as we hope?

[Xenophon]

Apart from reading various authors and books, what else can be done to make writing more stylish/eloquence yet concise?

Write 1000 words daily, without fail. Go back and look at your output after, say, a week. You'll be aghast---"I wrote THAT!?" Revise. You'll soon develop facility at spotting your flaws. The key, though, is to always be writing. Then, to always be revising. In time the two skills tend to merge and your inner editor critiques you in the act of creation.

[Mounce574]

I know that feeling, Wolf. Writing the stories turned out to be easier than editing to "humanise" them. Philosophy forums probably don't help in that regard.

Too often I broke the rule - show, don't tell. Too often I used academic rather than relatable words. Too often I indulged in details out of interest without considering how it would impact on the story flow. I sent an early manuscript to a friendly online scientist acquaintance and he suggested that I ease up on the extraneous scientific detail, which says much about how turgid the text was at first

After seven months of editing, though, it's improving. I am going to put these infernal ideas I've had out into the world or burst! If that means editing for a decade, so be it. Apparently Stephen King can produce six pages of clean copy in a day, which simply makes my jaw drop. ix pages is easy. Clean copy is not. To be fair, that impressed GRRM too so that made me feel less plodding.

writersofthefuture.com has a free class online. If you look into it, they also have a science fiction, fantasy, and speculative writing contest that is free to enter. After doing a review on one of the books, the top 12 stories were really beyond amazing to read.

[Sculptor1]

Apart from reading various authors and books, what else can be done to make writing more stylish/eloquence yet concise?

Write something everyday.
Print stuff you write and read it on paper a month later, then 3 months late.
Write something everyday.
When you find an author you like speak out the words in your head, read them out load and joy doen any vocabulary you like but do not normally used.
If you are capable of mimickry, then read out load authors you like in their voice or find audio examples of them. When you writ subvocalise in their voice. You will be surprised out how you can modify your own style with their's.
Write something everyday.
Different techniques work for different people depending on your preferred learning style.
For example - if you are a visual learner then pinning up flash cards of desirable vocabulary and setting yourself tasks to employ those words in your next writing exercise.
Write something everyday.
You might be able to find random writing prompts online. Put yourself out side your confort xone to write something you never would normally.

Oh - and .....

Write something everyday.

[Sy Borg]

I know that feeling, Wolf. Writing the stories turned out to be easier than editing to "humanise" them. Philosophy forums probably don't help in that regard.

Too often I broke the rule - show, don't tell. Too often I used academic rather than relatable words. Too often I indulged in details out of interest without considering how it would impact on the story flow. I sent an early manuscript to a friendly online scientist acquaintance and he suggested that I ease up on the extraneous scientific detail, which says much about how turgid the text was at first :)

After seven months of editing, though, it's improving. I am going to put these infernal ideas I've had out into the world or burst! If that means editing for a decade, so be it. Apparently Stephen King can produce six pages of clean copy in a day, which simply makes my jaw drop. ix pages is easy. Clean copy is not. To be fair, that impressed GRRM too so that made me feel less plodding.

writersofthefuture.com has a free class online. If you look into it, they also have a science fiction, fantasy, and speculative writing contest that is free to enter. After doing a review on one of the books, the top 12 stories were really beyond amazing to read.

Cheers. No doubt they were excellent.

It's a tad embarrassing. I've lost the passion and stopped. I'd sit down and there was nothing I especially wanted to say, and my only non-paid feedback was, well, no one I've sent a story got back to me. The ideas are things I'd like to read or see, but I suspect I'm too introverted to write good character interactions. I probably should do an idea dump on that site and see if it's useful to anyone.

[Pattern-chaser]

Too often I broke the rule - show, don't tell. Too often I used academic rather than relatable words. Too often I indulged in details out of interest without considering how it would impact on the story flow. I sent an early manuscript to a friendly online scientist acquaintance and he suggested that I ease up on the extraneous scientific detail, which says much about how turgid the text was at first

You describe my own efforts at fiction very well. I've decided to leave it to those who actually have a talent for it! [And I don't mean you don't. You're probably being too hard on yourself anyway. I mean that *I* have no talent for it.]

[Sy Borg]

Too often I broke the rule - show, don't tell. Too often I used academic rather than relatable words. Too often I indulged in details out of interest without considering how it would impact on the story flow. I sent an early manuscript to a friendly online scientist acquaintance and he suggested that I ease up on the extraneous scientific detail, which says much about how turgid the text was at first :)

You describe my own efforts at fiction very well. I've decided to leave it to those who actually have a talent for it! 😀 [And I don't mean you don't. You're probably being too hard on yourself anyway. I mean that *I* have no talent for it.]

No need for a qualifier. If I had a talent for it, people would have read my stories, and asked for more rather than quietly skulking off and hoping I'd forget to ask about it.

Do people read much fiction now with all the articles and multimedia content available?

[Pattern-chaser]

Do people read much fiction now with all the articles and multimedia content available?

As my ability to concentrate, and to read and understand more complex written material, diminishes with age, my reading is more and more centred on fantasy — swords and sorcery — fiction.

[JackDaydream]

Too often I broke the rule - show, don't tell. Too often I used academic rather than relatable words. Too often I indulged in details out of interest without considering how it would impact on the story flow. I sent an early manuscript to a friendly online scientist acquaintance and he suggested that I ease up on the extraneous scientific detail, which says much about how turgid the text was at first

You describe my own efforts at fiction very well. I've decided to leave it to those who actually have a talent for it! [And I don't mean you don't. You're probably being too hard on yourself anyway. I mean that *I* have no talent for it.]

No need for a qualifier. If I had a talent for it, people would have read my stories, and asked for more rather than quietly skulking off and hoping I'd forget to ask about it.

Do people read much fiction now with all the articles and multimedia content available?

You may have shown your writing to the wrong people. It is easy to get demoralised and give up. I do go to a creative writing group and find that enjoyable for feedback. I do like writing stories but find it hard not to let philosophy creep into them.

As far as I can see, so many people read fiction. Of course, many people don't read much at all and spend time using media. There is so much being published, or self-published. There are more genres emerging and I like steampunk at the moment.