Philosophy Discussion Forums

Bake me a perfect cake and then call me a moron.

Dark Matter wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 2:01 pm Talk about perfection being impossible makes my head hurt. What kind of moron can even suggest such a thing?

Obviously someone smarter with more imagination than yourself obviously.

ThomasHobbes wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 4:20 pm

Dark Matter wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 2:01 pm Talk about perfection being impossible makes my head hurt. What kind of moron can even suggest such a thing?

Obviously someone smarter with more imagination than yourself obviously.

It doesn't take a lot of smarts or imagination to see imperfection; it takes deep insight to see past the imperfections.

Eduk wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 4:02 pm Bake me a perfect cake and then call me a moron.

“Humans consider themselves unique, so they've rooted their whole theory of existence on their uniqueness. 'One' is their unit of measure. But it's not. All social systems we've put into place are a mere sketch. 'One plus one equals two.' That's all we've learned. But one plus one has never equaled two. There are, in fact, no numbers and no letters. We've codified our existence to bring it down to human size, to make it comprehensible. We've created a scale so we can forget its unfathomable scale.”
-- Lucy

Perfection cannot be codified or imagined by entities bounded by the limitations of space and time. To say that perfection does not, therefore, exist is only to admit to a shallowness of mind.

So you can't imagine perfection but you know that perfection exists? It's basically the same as your God. Undefined. Undefined exists. As soon as I discover undefined then it must be either perfection or God or something undefined.

Eduk wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 4:02 pm Bake me a perfect cake and then call me a moron.

I find this challenge kinda funny. I've had perfect cakes. I was overjoyed eating them, perfectly satisfied, experienced no flaws. The cake purpose was satisfied perfectly.

No one I've ever met could draw a perfect circle - unless it was meant to be perfect in an aesthetic way, rather than a mathematical way - but perfect cakes, those I've encountered.

You are using the normative definition of perfection. As in really good. If we say god is really good then some of the god claims tend to fall away.

Eduk wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 3:27 am So you can't imagine perfection but you know that perfection exists? It's basically the same as your God. Undefined. Undefined exists. As soon as I discover undefined then it must be either perfection or God or something undefined.

Forget Spectrum (AKA “Veritas Aequitas”). He’s proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Is “infinity” a useless concept? Does it exist? Can you define it? Is it perfect, imperfect, or does it contain elements of both? Must an existential quality be empirical in order to be real?

Eduk wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 4:35 am You are using the normative definition of perfection. As in really good. If we say god is really good then some of the god claims tend to fall away.

Thhis happens all the time on forums. Haven’t you noticed?

In the context of the “discussion” better to regard the idea of “perfect” as somethign to strive toward. Otherwise it is an absolute which only has meaning within a confined area - meaning if the rule is set that a cake is perfect by meeting a certain requirements then it is, as defined by the rule, a perfect cake.

Of course there is pedantry going on here so why not add mine!

It’sa silly debate and one abandoned by the poster immediately after he posted it - and Spectrum has a habit of setting unfounded premises out, and all premises require some degree of belief that is why we make use of logic and why I have said the above.

Note: Don’t worry the subjectively “perfect cake” is just that. Everyone here with any base knowledge in this area knows of Ockham’s Razor.

Dark Matter wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 4:49 am

Eduk wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 3:27 am So you can't imagine perfection but you know that perfection exists? It's basically the same as your God. Undefined. Undefined exists. As soon as I discover undefined then it must be either perfection or God or something undefined.

Forget Spectrum (AKA “Veritas Aequitas”). He’s proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Is “infinity” a useless concept? Does it exist? Can you define it? Is it perfect, imperfect, or does it contain elements of both? Must an existential quality be empirical in order to be real?

Incorrect. He has actaully shown himself to be one of the most concise in his expositions on this forum - not that I agree with a lot of what he says.

Does infinity have to be empirical in order to exist and/or be real?

Note: Inifinity does exist as a concept and is put to use in mathematical and physical modeling.

Dark Matter wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 4:53 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 4:20 pm

Obviously someone smarter with more imagination than yourself obviously.

It doesn't take a lot of smarts or imagination to see imperfection; it takes deep insight to see past the imperfections.

it would mean a lack of imagination if you could not think of some way to improve something.

Dark Matter wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 1:40 am Perfection cannot be codified or imagined by entities bounded by the limitations of space and time. To say that perfection does not, therefore, exist is only to admit to a shallowness of mind.

By the same method of logic we could also infer that such arbitrary ideas such as perfect, perfection, maximumily great are also meaningless attempts at codifying the value of things. To assume any form of judgement, in regards to the inherent state of being, is perhaps evidence of our own naive egos. Unless we can establish that the Universe causes things to exist with an intended innate purpose and then somehow understand what that purpose is, any value judgement in regards to the ability to serve purpose with 100% efficiency hinders on limits of our own knowledge.

Dark Matter wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 4:49 am
Is “infinity” a useless concept? Does it exist? Can you define it? Is it perfect, imperfect, or does it contain elements of both? Must an existential quality be empirical in order to be real?

You are mistaking a notion with reality.
Take a deep breath and try to think things through a little more.

DM hard not to get caught up in semantics here, but I'll try. Most people say their God is real. As in not just a real concept but a real thing independent of concept. If you are claiming that God isn't a real thing independent of minds then I agree.

Dark Matter wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 2:01 pm Talk about perfection being impossible makes my head hurt. What kind of moron can even suggest such a thing?

Maybe your head hurts after trying to rationally explain something irrational. It’s ok, you’re only human. The problem most humans have while rationalizing about such such complex theories is the simple fact that they deal in absolutes. Wich again has being proven to be wrong throughout history. The world does not revolve around absolutes so why should humans try to reason with such concept? Maybe less headaches would occur to fellows such as yourself?!