Philosophy Discussion Forums

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 2:18 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 1:48 am

Yup you read me correctly. More experience increases the chance of higher quality. Your kid needs surgery. Do you seek out a wet behind the ears resident surgeon who isn't yet Board certified or a seasoned attending well into his career?

Name an area where things are not better now than in the Iron age. Food preparation? Judicial system? Medical care? Women's rights? Penal system? Agriculture? Music? Astronomy? Waste treatment? Transportation?

America has the best acute care in the world bar none. If you break a bone, need your heart replaced, kidney etc., this is the place to be. My point is America lacks in healthcare in that it doesn't have any. Out of 32 industrialized nations America pays the most but has the highest infant mortality and highest population with chronic disease than any. So what is going wrong here in America? What's wrong with our thinking? It's like we're brainwashed to believe "trust in America" and we'll get on the right path. You have to understand the influence corporations possess not only in the medical field but also in scientific field. To be a loyal American does not mean to be dumb and blind and life isn't a football game where you can simply choose a side.

Pardon my keeping you on track. This isn't about America. This is about Modern vs Iron age. (Remember the topic is why use an Iron age compilation to make scientific choices in Modern times)

Comments?

Greta wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 2:28 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 1:48 amName an area where things are not better now than in the Iron age. Food preparation? Judicial system? Medical care? Women's rights? Penal system? Agriculture? Music? Astronomy? Waste treatment? Transportation?

Exactly.

Maybe popular music back then was better than today - it would be hard pressed to be worse

... chortle...

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 5:10 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 1:48 am Name an area where things are not better now than in the Iron age. Food preparation? Judicial system? Medical care? Women's rights? Penal system? Agriculture? Music? Astronomy? Waste treatment? Transportation?

Well I definitely wouldn't want to have to live 3500 years ago cause that would mean I'd have to make this long trek again It's also hard to generalize because life was different throughout the world during that period. What some ancient people seem to have had that we don't however is an identity with themselves and the world around them. It's hard to say how far in thought some people of that period traveled but I know much of their teaching is still a mystery. Simple things like the the concept of number, functions of number and how number relates to form and function within the human body are still things men of today question. If you really want to examine our world today and question the judicial system, medical care, agriculture,food preparation, water treatment and the penal system I'll tell you each and every one of those services is heavily influenced by corporate interests and due to that fact all of them actually do harm where they could do good.

Again to stay on track, I will stipulate to you that Modern life suffers from Modern problems, of which you correctly named one (of many).

However, on the topic at hand, glad to hear you agree that Modern thought and practice in essentially every area is superior to that of the Iron age. Hence my (as yet unrefuted) argument that it is illogical to cherry-pick one tribe's origin text as the source of scientific thought for those in Modern times.

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 1:03 pm

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 2:18 am

America has the best acute care in the world bar none. If you break a bone, need your heart replaced, kidney etc., this is the place to be. My point is America lacks in healthcare in that it doesn't have any. Out of 32 industrialized nations America pays the most but has the highest infant mortality and highest population with chronic disease than any. So what is going wrong here in America? What's wrong with our thinking? It's like we're brainwashed to believe "trust in America" and we'll get on the right path. You have to understand the influence corporations possess not only in the medical field but also in scientific field. To be a loyal American does not mean to be dumb and blind and life isn't a football game where you can simply choose a side.

Pardon my keeping you on track. This isn't about America. This is about Modern vs Iron age. (Remember the topic is why use an Iron age compilation to make scientific choices in Modern times)

Comments?

This discussion is about thought. It's about our conception of then and now amongst other things. What I attempted to illustrate is the high degree of perversion in America today and hopefully also illustrate how that perversion has infiltrated our minds and thinking.

Scribbler60 wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 10:18 am

jerlands wrote: ↑February 8th, 2018, 6:23 pmYou really have no idea how myth expresses science.

Myth does not express science.

It expresses human interactions and the moral lessons of the day.

Read Joseph Campbell.

Joseph Campbell may have done some interesting work for his day but you're not on point thinking myth does not express science. I think another misconception is what science is. Science literally is "to know" and the modern definition is readily available. Science does not necessitate double blind placebo trials or any defined process other than anticipated results achieved repeatedly. Lastly, I believe your concept of myth is lacking in that you seemingly want to congeal all ancient teaching under one umbrella. Ancient Egypt held knowledge that fully surpasses modern thought or conception. Am I able to defend that statement? No.. not unless someone is interested in learning from the beginning and why the number zero (0) doesn't represent nothingness but rather expresses inactive fullness.

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑February 8th, 2018, 10:53 pm

jerlands wrote: ↑February 8th, 2018, 3:45 pm
The Bible is much more than a hodgepodge gathered to create some sort of identity for a group of people. That really doesn't make any sense.

You may not like it, but that's how things are. And actually, it's the only way it can make sense. The compilation from several sources is a known fact since the 19th century and agreed among scholars, even those who would be willing to believe that the text provides accurate historical accounts.

jerlands wrote: ↑February 8th, 2018, 3:45 pmThe notions we are given from the Bible such as "God," our relationship with "God," Law and order, are not trivial.

Myths and the magical practices of religions are more than often not trivial. Actually they play an important ideological function in most societies. It's generally agreed that the biblical narrative differs somehow from other religious myths and that may have played a part in its success. But it's myth anyway.

jerlands wrote: ↑February 8th, 2018, 3:45 pm They are fundamental philosophical concepts that allow man to establish a purposeful humanitarian civilization. Also, the stories such as Moses are much deeper than simple literal reading might offer. Moses has a symbolic name that reflects the actual function of the event described in the story. You might say you can draw any number of patterns from clouds in the sky but "being drawn from the water" has more connotations when in full context.

Similar interpretations full of symbolism and philosophical views can be drawn from any mythical story, whether it's about Moses, Gilgamesh or Hercules.

The world is not flat but has depth and dimension. If you don't recognize what ancient man perceived as depth than that is merely an opinion. I happen to see a great deal of knowledge and depth in ancient teachings and in particular Ancient Egypt where it seems all western philosophical roads lead to.

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 3:35 pmAncient Egypt held knowledge that fully surpasses modern thought or conception.

Assertion without evidence.

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 3:35 pm Am I able to defend that statement? No.

Well, I'll give you points for recognizing that you are unable to defend the statement.

But this...

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 3:35 pm. not unless someone is interested in learning from the beginning and why the number zero (0) doesn't represent nothingness but rather expresses inactive fullness.

Is entirely meaningless. "Inactive fullness." I know what each of those words mean, but put together, in this context, has no meaning whatsoever.

Just because one can put nouns, verbs etc in some semblance of order doesn't mean that there's any sense to the sentence.

It sounds like another post-hoc rationalization, made after the fact, to try and massage ancient texts to fit modern understanding.

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 3:32 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 1:03 pm

Pardon my keeping you on track. This isn't about America. This is about Modern vs Iron age. (Remember the topic is why use an Iron age compilation to make scientific choices in Modern times)

Comments?

This discussion is about thought. It's about our conception of then and now amongst other things. What I attempted to illustrate is the high degree of perversion in America today and hopefully also illustrate how that perversion has infiltrated our minds and thinking.

High compared to what? The debauchery of ancient times that would put various "white collar" Modern troubles to shame?

LuckyR wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 4:58 pm

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 3:32 pm

This discussion is about thought. It's about our conception of then and now amongst other things. What I attempted to illustrate is the high degree of perversion in America today and hopefully also illustrate how that perversion has infiltrated our minds and thinking.

High compared to what? The debauchery of ancient times that would put various "white collar" Modern troubles to shame?

Definitely! It's only fairly recently that societies have routinely and broadly considered child sex to be debauched. Paedophilia wasn't considered to be debauched in the past because it was normal, and often compulsory in terms of child marriages. Rape too was considered fair punishment for feminine transgressions or vulnerability - not necessarily immoral (unless perpetrated against one's own family) - and was mandated by law as punishment in some Abrahamic cultures, and remains so in the most backward of them.

Humans have probably never been less perverted, nor more worried about the idea of being so.

Scribbler60 wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 4:47 pm

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 3:35 pmAncient Egypt held knowledge that fully surpasses modern thought or conception.

Assertion without evidence.

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 3:35 pm Am I able to defend that statement? No.

Well, I'll give you points for recognizing that you are unable to defend the statement.

But this...

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 3:35 pm. not unless someone is interested in learning from the beginning and why the number zero (0) doesn't represent nothingness but rather expresses inactive fullness.

Is entirely meaningless. "Inactive fullness." I know what each of those words mean, but put together, in this context, has no meaning whatsoever.

Just because one can put nouns, verbs etc in some semblance of order doesn't mean that there's any sense to the sentence.

It sounds like another post-hoc rationalization, made after the fact, to try and massage ancient texts to fit modern understanding.

Here's a concept of creation through the union of the other (duality as we think of it.) I'm sure it will mean nothing to you so you might as well strike it also.

Geology and biology emerging from the ground and intertwining?

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 5:14 pmHere's a concept of creation through the union of the other (duality as we think of it.) I'm sure it will mean nothing to you so you might as well strike it also.

There is no evidence for dualism. Zero. None.

Nice drawing, but meaningless.

Greta wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 5:16 pm Geology and biology emerging from the ground and intertwining?

That's actually an interesting perspective but this particular image symbolizes an action that resonates throughout life down to DNA. It does begin however with duality so if you dismiss duality, left/right, up/down, waxing/waning then there isn't anything in it for you. But it also signifies one (1) and in that I hope to get to how one (1) arose from the inactivity of everything

One of the principle dualistic functions in the cosmos is what we think of as expansion and contraction. Expansion and contraction are actually the same thing but inverted like addition is the inverse of subtraction and multiplication the inverse of division. Vibration (a wave) is what arises from any act of expansion and contraction as does any form of duality bring about a wave.

I'll stop here unless there's any hint of interest.

I should also note there's this cosmological theory call the "Big Bounce" that kinda hits on some of the notions I'm referring to.

jerlands wrote: ↑February 9th, 2018, 3:58 pm
The world is not flat but has depth and dimension. If you don't recognize what ancient man perceived as depth than that is merely an opinion. I happen to see a great deal of knowledge and depth in ancient teachings and in particular Ancient Egypt where it seems all western philosophical roads lead to.

Surely I can have a mere opinion, but I'm actually stating the facts: the Bible is a religious text full of mythological narratives created under specific political circumstances, most likely in the times of King Josiah, who is known to have carried out an important religious reform, which included a compilation of sacred texts. Whether they can be thought to have "depth and dimension" or not, is not the issue. Many fictional literary texts, both ancient and modern, can have depth and dimension. Anthropologists, historians, philologists, social scientists and philosophers have dedicated lots of efforts to study and discuss myths in ancient literature, as they give good insights about the societies where they were formed. That doesn't give any mythical story more historical accuracy or a better philosophical and scientific understanding of reality. They are two divergent modes of thinking.