Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[gimal]

In your statement "1 + 1 = 1", does the symbol "1" refer to:

A: 1 instance of the the type "number".
B: The instance of the type "number" referred to as "1".
C: Neither of the above.

i ask
what does the symbol 1 stand for in.
1+1=2

[Dolphin42]

B

(This is a placeholder because posts can't be less than 5 characters.)

-- Updated October 19th, 2016, 11:19 am to add the following --

Incidentally (to the gods of this website) why can't posts be less than 5 characters? Haven't you ever heard the expression "less is more"? Yes, I know it's a logical contradiction, but it's snappy.

[Sealight]

The statement "1 number + 1 number = 1 number" is not equivalent to the statement "1 + 1 = 1". To claim that they are is to make a category error.

That's right. The first plus is not an algebraic plus. It can be called "operation of confluence". It's a good example how easily non-math people mess up with different types of mathematical operations.

[Present awareness]

I admire your patience Dolphin42, but gimal just doesn't "get" it.

First of all, the number 1 does not equal the number .999... they are two different numbers. However, you may say that you have one instance of the number .999... and you could call that instance (x). If you multiply (x) by 10, no problem, simple multiplication. Subtract the result by any number, no problem, simple subtraction. But here's the rub, suddenly 9 times x =9, what happened to our instance of (x) .999... ? 9 x .999= 8.991 and not 9.

[Sealight]

Not only do you not understand the rules of math, gimal, but you don't understand the definition of a finite number.

Is there a definition of a finite number? May I look at it?

[Present awareness]

Definition of Finite Number - Math is Fun
https://www.mathsisfun.com › definitions
A definite number. Not infinite. In other words it could be measured, or given a value. There are a finite number of people at this beach. There are also a finite number of grains of sand at the beach (but they would be hard to count!)

[gimal]

First of all, the number 1 does not equal the number .999... they are two different numbers.

so tell us what is wrong with this proof.

Let be x = 0.999..
10x = 9.999…
10x-x =9.999…- 0.999…
9x=9
x= 1

-- Updated Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:14 pm to add the following --

The statement "1 number + 1 number = 1 number" is not equivalent to the statement "1 + 1 = 1". To claim that they are is to make a category error.

you would say 1 apple + 1 apple = 2 apples
so
then
1 number + 1 number = 1 number is ok too.

[Sealight]

Definition of Finite Number - Math is Fun
https://www.mathsisfun.com › definitions

I don't see a definition there.

A definite number. Not infinite. In other words it could be measured, or given a value.

And how do you define a value?

-- Updated October 20th, 2016, 12:29 am to add the following --

The paper also shows a finite number = a non-finite number thus maths is inconsistent.

Proof mathematics is inconsistent
A finite number is not a non-finite number
And it negation
A finite number= a non-finite number
It be proven that
1= 0.999…
Let be x = 0.999..
10x = 9.999…
10x-x =9.999…- 0.999…
9x=9
x= 1
But that proof thus shows a finite number be equal to a non-finite number thus a contradiction in terms thus mathematics ends in contradiction

So, you are saying that 0.999... is a non-finite number. Is this correct?

-- Updated October 20th, 2016, 12:32 am to add the following --

.999... is non-finite
if it is not non-finite please gives us an example of a non-finite decimal.

Or you are saying that 0.999... is a non-finite decimal?

Then I have a few questions to you:
1. What is a non-finite decimal?
2. What is a difference between a non-finite number and a non-finite decimal?
3. Why do you call 0.999... a number and if it is a number then how do you define it?
Thank you.

-- Updated October 20th, 2016, 12:41 am to add the following --

.999... never ends -it cant be measured
therefore it is non-finite.

please tell us what rules where broken in these proofs.

A finite number is not a non-finite number
And it negation
A finite number= a non-finite number
It be proven that
1= 0.999…
Let be x = 0.999..
10x = 9.999…
10x-x =9.999…- 0.999…
9x=9
x= 1

If x = 0.999... is not a finite number (as you said) then the following rule could be broken: 10x = 9.999...
You have to define a multiplication of a finite number 10 by a non-finite number (by your opinion) 0.999... first. There is no such a rule in Arithmetic.

-- Updated October 20th, 2016, 1:00 am to add the following --

I am still waiting for your definitions of a non-finite number and a non-finite decimal and your statements without these definitions are not clear to me. Still let me clarify my previous sentence.
Many people believe that 10 times infinity = infinity. Although this equality is neither arithmetic nor algebraic it looks correct. And infinity, of course, is not a number, and hence it is not a finite (or whatever) number. If x = 0.999... is a non-finite number then it is not a finite number. Is this correct? And if it is not a finite number then why 10x is not equal to x like it was for infinity? Actually 10x can be anything until you define such a multiplication properly. So, the definition has to be given.

[gimal]

I am still waiting for your definitions

we are all waiting for you to show us what is wrong with the poets proof.

if you cant show us what is wrong with the proof
then the poets argument that maths is inconsistent and absurd stands.

Proof mathematics is inconsistent

It be proven that
1= 0.999…
Let be x = 0.999..
10x = 9.999…
10x-x =9.999…- 0.999…
9x=9
x= 1

[Sealight]

we are all waiting for you to show us what is wrong with the poets proof.

Why are you waiting for me? Did I promise you anything?
My goal is to clarify some of your statements which are not clear and not quite related to the poet's proof. I have no idea why you posted them here if you are still waiting for flawns in the poet's proof. If you don't want to answer my questions then don't do that. It is simple. But if you want to continue then answer my questions first.

[gimal]

I am still waiting for your definitions of a non-finite number and a non-finite decimal and your statements without these definitions are not

i gave the answer to that question in a previous post you obviously dont read the posts at all-i bet you have not even read the poets paper.
gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/wp-conten ... ssible.pdf

[Sealight]

And what is the poet's proof, by the way? Could you please formulate it for us precisely here? So far I found two kind of proofs in the previous posts. Which one is the poet's proof?

-- Updated October 20th, 2016, 1:40 am to add the following --

I am still waiting for your definitions of a non-finite number and a non-finite decimal and your statements without these definitions are not

i gave the answer to that question in a previous post you obviously dont read the posts at all-i bet you have not even read the poets paper.
gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/wp-conten ... ssible.pdf

It wouldn't be hard to repeat it here, would it? The link is not helpful and it doesn't provide your definition.
Please answer all my questions if you want to continue.

[gimal]

And what is the poet's proof,

you have not even read the poets paper for if you did you would have seen the proof and to play your game if you want read poets paper then I will not continue with you.

[Sealight]

Looks like you are just wasting time and don't want to answer my questions. Sorry, I can't help.

[gimal]

Looks like you are just wasting time and don't want to answer my questions. Sorry, I can't help

you are wasting every ones time by not even having read poets paper -for if you did you will see his proofs.