Jacob10 wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:00 am
My objection to “black” holes is that they simply don’t exist.
Why do you define them as “black” holes when they are just holes?
They were termed "black hole" at some stage and it was catchy enough to stick. They are called "black" because the gravitational pull of the central object pulls in space at faster than light speed, which means photons cannot escape, which is why the space around the object is black. However, the the disc of material drawn by a black hole can be extremely luminous due to the high speeds of orbit.
How can you claim that black holes do not exist when images have been captured of M87 and Sagittarius A*? Do you think the Moon landing was CGI (before CGI) too? The existence of black holes has long been established by gravitational effects on other objects. The images were roughly as expected based on prior computer modelling.
It seems you are trying to equate belief in black holes with belief in God, as if each is equally unlikely or proved. Yet no images of God have been taken ... though pantheists, panentheists and Spinozans would say that every image every take is God, but that doesn't count. There is thus zero equivalence between accepting the existence of black holes and belief in a deity that thinks like, and is shaped like, Homo sapiens.
Re: Is consciousness an illusion?
Posted: June 12th, 2022, 3:13 am
by Consul
Jacob10 wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:00 am
My objection to “black” holes is that they simply don’t exist.
Why do you define them as “black” holes when they are just holes?
Black holes are literally neither black nor holes, but they do exist as physical objects. They are black in the sense of being invisible or not being directly visible.
For comparison: There are insects called antlions, which are neither ants nor lions. Nonetheless, antlions do exist. There is a traditional meat dish in Southern Germany called Leberkäse, the literal translation of which is "liver-cheese"; but it is made neither of liver nor of cheese. Nonetheless, Leberkäse does exist. That's the funniness of language!
Re: Is consciousness an illusion?
Posted: June 12th, 2022, 3:19 am
by Consul
Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:11 am
…Yet no images of God have been taken…
Jacob10 wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:00 am
My objection to “black” holes is that they simply don’t exist.
Why do you define them as “black” holes when they are just holes?
Black holes are literally neither black nor holes, but they do exist as physical objects. They are black in the sense of being invisible or not being directly visible.
For comparison: There are insects called antlions, which are neither ants nor lions. Nonetheless, antlions do exist. There is a traditional meat dish in Southern Germany called Leberkäse, the literal translation of which is "liver-cheese"; but it is made neither of liver nor of cheese. Nonetheless, Leberkäse does exist. That's the funniness of language!
Holes are just holes with separated Darkness and Light within them.Don’t get holes mixed up with darkness and light.
Re: Is consciousness an illusion?
Posted: June 12th, 2022, 3:24 am
by Consul
Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:11 amHow can you claim that black holes do not exist when images have been captured of M87 and Sagittarius A*? Do you think the Moon landing was CGI (before CGI) too? The existence of black holes has long been established by gravitational effects on other objects. The images were roughly as expected based on prior computer modelling.
Right, the existence of black holes is beyond any reasonable scientific doubt.
Jacob10 wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:00 am
My objection to “black” holes is that they simply don’t exist.
Why do you define them as “black” holes when they are just holes?
Black holes are literally neither black nor holes, but they do exist as physical objects. They are black in the sense of being invisible or not being directly visible.
For comparison: There are insects called antlions, which are neither ants nor lions. Nonetheless, antlions do exist. There is a traditional meat dish in Southern Germany called Leberkäse, the literal translation of which is "liver-cheese"; but it is made neither of liver nor of cheese. Nonetheless, Leberkäse does exist. That's the funniness of language!
Holes are just holes with separated Darkness and Light within them.Don’t get holes mixed up with darkness and light.
It's not a hole so much as a gravity well. We live within a gravity well ourselves, but a far smaller one.
You might prefer neuron stars, the gravitational field around them is slower than light speed, so they and their accretion discs are visible. If you fell into a neutron star, your shredded atoms would hit the surface at a third the speed of light. If you fell into black hole, your shredded atoms would disappear into the blackness.
Jacob10 wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:00 am
My objection to “black” holes is that they simply don’t exist.
Why do you define them as “black” holes when they are just holes?
Black holes are literally neither black nor holes, but they do exist as physical objects. They are black in the sense of being invisible or not being directly visible.
For comparison: There are insects called antlions, which are neither ants nor lions. Nonetheless, antlions do exist. There is a traditional meat dish in Southern Germany called Leberkäse, the literal translation of which is "liver-cheese"; but it is made neither of liver nor of cheese. Nonetheless, Leberkäse does exist. That's the funniness of language!
Holes are just holes with separated Darkness and Light within them.Don’t get holes mixed up with darkness and light.
It's not a hole so much as a gravity well. We live within a gravity well ourselves, but a far smaller one.
You might prefer neuron stars, the gravitational field around them is slower than light speed, so they and their accretion discs are visible. If you fell into a neutron star, your shredded atoms would hit the surface at a third the speed of light. If you fell into black hole, your shredded atoms would disappear into the blackness.
Why would you doubt physics?
What is gravity? Do you know? Define it?
Re: Is consciousness an illusion?
Posted: June 12th, 2022, 3:51 am
by Consul
Jacob10 wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:22 amHoles are just holes with separated Darkness and Light within them.Don’t get holes mixed up with darkness and light.
If black holes were literally holes, they would be holes in spacetime; but if "black holes are regions of spacetime from which nothing, not even light, can escape," (see link below!) then they are not holes in, but parts of spacetime (with exotic physical properties).
Jacob10 wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:22 amHoles are just holes with separated Darkness and Light within them.Don’t get holes mixed up with darkness and light.
If black holes were literally holes, they would be holes in spacetime; but if "black holes are regions of spacetime from which nothing, not even light, can escape," (see link below!) then they are not holes in, but parts of spacetime (with exotic physical properties).
They are just holes and matter enters and exits many many of these holes so all matter did not come from a single hole (point) and will not exit via a single hole (point) either.
Observations confirm this.
Let’s see if someone knows what gravity actually is other than it possibly being an illusionary force dreamt up in the mind of an individual and backed up with flowery massaged mathematical equations.
Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:11 am
…Yet no images of God have been taken…
Not true! Here's one:
An older white male simian. You can't get more Godlike than that!
If the people's deity is a handsome older white male that is because the older white aristocrat is the people's ruler and they accept that sort of rule.
Black holes are literally neither black nor holes, but they do exist as physical objects. They are black in the sense of being invisible or not being directly visible.
For comparison: There are insects called antlions, which are neither ants nor lions. Nonetheless, antlions do exist. There is a traditional meat dish in Southern Germany called Leberkäse, the literal translation of which is "liver-cheese"; but it is made neither of liver nor of cheese. Nonetheless, Leberkäse does exist. That's the funniness of language!
Holes are just holes with separated Darkness and Light within them.Don’t get holes mixed up with darkness and light.
It's not a hole so much as a gravity well. We live within a gravity well ourselves, but a far smaller one.
You might prefer neuron stars, the gravitational field around them is slower than light speed, so they and their accretion discs are visible. If you fell into a neutron star, your shredded atoms would hit the surface at a third the speed of light. If you fell into black hole, your shredded atoms would disappear into the blackness.
Essentially, it is the warping of extremely thin stuff aka spacetime by much more dense stuff aka mass.
Why would you doubt gravity? What alternative can you offer?
Those "flowery" equations of Newton and Einstein allowed humans to build a craft that could land on Comet 67P, which is only a few kilometres long while being around half a billion kilometres away and travels through space at 135,000 kilometres per hour. Not flowery, but efficacious.
Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:26 amAn older white male simian. You can't get more Godlike than that!
Thus speaks the sinner! Do you expect God to be a young black lezzie? :wink:
Still a simian, Consul. As I keep saying, why would God have a simian morphology unless its ancestors had evolved in trees? How does a deity that creates universes evolve from arboreal species? If I was a theist, I'd be plumping for the formless spirit of unconditional love version rather than the angry old white bloke.
I have heard from theists that this formless God is still masculine because it penetrates matter. So we are all being penetrated at every moment, and without consent, I should add. And even if The Penetrator does not exist, we still find ourselves routinely penetrated by neutrinos, and maybe dark matter as well. No matter what, we are all ultimately fornicated, so to speak.
Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 12th, 2022, 3:26 amAn older white male simian. You can't get more Godlike than that!
Thus speaks the sinner! Do you expect God to be a young black lezzie?
Still a simian, Consul. As I keep saying, why would God have a simian morphology unless its ancestors had evolved in trees? How does a deity that creates universes evolve from arboreal species? If I was a theist, I'd be plumping for the formless spirit of unconditional love version rather than the angry old white bloke.
I have heard from theists that this formless God is still masculine because it penetrates matter. So we are all being penetrated at every moment, and without consent, I should add. And even if The Penetrator does not exist, we still find ourselves routinely penetrated by neutrinos, and maybe dark matter as well. No matter what, we are all ultimately fornicated, so to speak.
The theists' problem of evil is very resistant to attempts to dispel it. Humanists manage the problem of evil by claiming the human creates ethical reality from an ethically neutral natural environment.
