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OK boys and girls time for the next lesson in factual reality:

Lecture Series #4 - Fascism, Gun Control and the Intelligence Community, Dave Emory

L-4 This lecture analyzes gun control, an issue that has helped fuel the growth of the militia movement. Generally viewed as a liberal political issue, gun control has roots firmly planted in the history and methodology of international fascism. Presenting concrete facts refuting many of the popular arguments for gun control, the discussion highlights the fact that the presence of firearms in society is not connected to the crime or homicide levels. In addition, the program points out that bicycles, bathtubs, swimming pools, matches and automobiles each represent an exponentially greater threat to the lives of children than firearms.

After exploding many of the myths about gun control, the program delineates connections between international fascism and gun control. Much of the discussion centers on former Senator Thomas Dodd, one of the most important figures in the American gun control movement. A member of the U.S. prosecutorial staff at Nuremberg, this former FBI agent was close to the American Security Council (ASC), a domestic fascist group.

With its roots in the Hitler-Goebbels Anti-Comintern, the American Security Council was a key American link to the former World Anti-Communist League or WACL. Created by former FBI agents disgruntled at the demise of Senator Joseph McCarthy's "investigations," the American Security Council coalesced around the files of Harry Jung's American Vigilance Intelligence Federation. (Virulently anti-Semitic, Jung's organization was part of the Anti-Comintern prior to World War II.) Counting among its ranks some of the most prominent names on the far right, the organization kept track of people it considered "subversive," sharing political intelligence with prospective employers (particularly defense contractors.)

The ASC hated President John F. Kennedy and it is not, therefore, altogether surprising that Dodd helped to disseminate the disinformation that Lee Harvey Oswald had been trained in assassination by the KGB. With CIA assistance, Dodd inserted this disinformation into a Senate Subcommittee report. This disinformation, with roots in the same WACL milieu as the ASC, led liberals to cover-up the assassination out of fear that public perception that a communist killed the President would lead to a Third World War. Dodd's role in this affair is all the more interesting when one considers the possibility that Oswald may have ordered his weapons while working for Dodd's Subcommittee.

Investigating the mail-order firearms business, the Dodd committee focused on the two firms from which Oswald allegedly purchased his weapons. Oswald was apparently extraordinarily interested in mail-order guns, a strange way for a prospective assassin to acquire weaponry. In 1963, he could have purchased his guns over the counter with no trace of the transaction. Manuel Pena, an intelligence-connected Los Angeles Police officer involved with the "investigation" of Robert Kennedy's assassination, also worked with the Dodd subcommitee. Pena helped to trace Oswald's mail order gun purchases.

Dodd was instrumental in crafting 1968 gun control legislation that borrowed from the Nazi weapons control act of 1938. It should be noted that the assassinations of both Kennedys and Martin Luther King contributed to the passage of the 1968 Gun Control bill. None of those killings would have been prevented by gun control. After detailing Dodd's career and involvement with the gun control movement, the lecture underscores the role of "ex" CIA officer William O. Wells in the gun control movement.

The founder of one and deeply involved with the the other (supposedly competing) handgun control organization, Wells' opposition to firearms ownership is all the more surprising considering that Wells himself owns two handguns and a rifle. After discussion of Wells, the discussion analyzes some of the "lone nuts" whose massacres have spurred recent calls for gun control.

In particular, the lecture presents discussion of Patrick Edward Purdy, whose massacre of Stockton school children in 1989 was the first of schoolyard massacres that have plagued the country. In addition to his connections to the Aryan Nations, Purdy had been involved with the Unification Church of Rev. Sun Myung Moon, a fascist mind control cult.

The lecture concludes with rumination on the possibility that some of the massacres may be intended to help precipitate a fascist polarization of society. Since firearms are an intrinsic part of life in many parts of this country, outlawing them will have an alienating and polarizing effect on much of the population in those areas, driving them in the direction of fascism and blind reaction. (Recorded in Santa Monica in May of 1996.)


This audio is part of the collection: Community Audio It also belongs to collection:

Artist/Composer: Dave Emory Date: 1996

See source link here: https://archive.org/details/Lecture_Ser ... _Community

PS: I now know why wathching TV programs from England are so depressing - how a natiion that used to be considered as similar to the US has regressed back to the same totalitarian mentality that led to the American Revolution - One nut case goes beserk and kills a bunch of children - horrible isn't it? Yes it is horrible but what is even more horrible is that an entire nation should be rendered defenseless in time of emergency by the fascists that use tragedy to further their goals.

You might {but probably will not as the truth is detestable to the gun control cartel} look at this book:

Death by "Gun Control"

Why must all decent non-violent people fight against "gun control"? Why is the right to keep and bear arms truly a fundamental individual right? You can find the answers in this new book. People frequently ask why we are so dedicated to our cause? This book answers that question by collecting the key facts and arguments in one place. People have asked us to present the whole JPFO argument in one place. We have done it. Available now in an easy-reading format and a handy size, the new book is entitled Death by Gun Control: The Human Cost of Victim Disarmament. The message is simple: Disarmed people are neither free nor safe - they become the criminals' prey and the tyrants' playthings. When the civilians are defenseless and their government goes bad, however, thousands and millions of innocents die. Professor R.J. Rummel, author of the monumental book Death by Government, said: "Concentrated political power is the most dangerous thing on earth." For power to concentrate and become dangerous, the citizens must be disarmed. What disarms the citizens? The idea of "gun control." It's the idea that only the government has the right to possess firearms, and that citizens have no unalienable right to use force to defend against aggression. Death by Gun Control carefully examines the "gun control" idea: its meaning, its purposes, its effects. It comes in many forms, but in every form it enables the evildoers and works against righteous defense.

See source link here: http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

And if you scroll down the page it will give you the bloody statistics of the 55,000,000 who were killed indirectly or directly by your so-called humanitarian gun control by fascists governments in the 20th Century - Why don't you accept the truth or do you need more death and destruction to satisfy your misbegotten goals? The ghosts of Treblinka, Dachau, Auschwitz, Bełżec, etc., etc. {I found more than 70 listed}, scream out from their graves to your gun control and rights of fascist states:

NEVER AGAIN, NEVER AGAIN, NEVER AGAIN

And finally {for now} fellow philosophers a quote from the famous philosopher George Santayana:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

Wooden shoe wrote:The next move would be living in heavily fortified, walled compounds with guards armed with machine guns and land mines everywhere around the walls, travelling in armored vehicles.

Right, I'm sure that's just around the corner. It's always just around the corner, isn't it? Of course it is.

It's quite interesting that all of the posters advocating for gun control in the US are from the other countries like the UK or other UK-founded countries (Australia originating as an English criminal prison colony). Don't be jealous of our freedoms here in the US guys. We fought for it, and we fought well. You could have it too if you could just be as able and effective as Americans and stand up for yourselves.

Hey freedom's not for everyone though. Some need the hand-holding guidance and reassurance of their nanny-state governments. Those who have been institutionalized by their repressive governments would not know what to do with any degree of freedom (probably wouldn't recognize it anyway) and their countries would most likely collapse under the weight of their own inexperience.

I'm very grateful that people who live in second-rate repressive countries cannot vote for policies regarding the rightful freedoms of a first-rate country and where such freedoms are an integral part of Human life. When one cannot understand the principle of freedom simply because they have not experienced it, then one really cannot comment intelligently from the outside looking in and from such a distance.

Living here in the US (the paradigm of premier countries), I have no fear for my life or the life or safety of my family from guerrilla fighters, the Yakuza, insurgent groups, Muslim extremists, poacher gangs, militant kidnappings, IRA bombings, roaming rape gangs, my own government or my fellow countrymen, etc.

I have guns. My neighbor has guns. We are smart and responsible gun owners as are the vast & overwhelming majority of gun owners in the US. Therefore, no problem.

You all can keep your second-rate societies. I'll stay in the best country in the world.

Don't be jealous of our freedoms here in the US guys. We fought for it, and we fought well.

In the UK we have the freedom of knowing that when we send our children to school that there is very very little chance of some maniac breaking in & shooting the children. American gun supporters think their right to buy guns on a whim over rides a childs right to be safe at school.

So, you think with your guns, you are safe from Muslim extremists, insurgent groups & bombings. Don't you read the news?

And incidently, the IRA, a terrorist organisation, were partly funded by the American public, which didn't stop until America suffered its own terrorist atrocity.

As someone else said, "Don't let the facts get in the way of a fairy tale".

Rederic wrote:In the UK we have the freedom of knowing that when we send our children to school that there is very very little chance of some maniac breaking in & shooting the children.

Right. It appears that you just have to worry about school stabbings. Yeah, that's so much better.

Excerpt of a posting from another forum:

"Correct...school shootings in England are highly unlikely.... But England seems to need more KNIFE control laws as they have a higher rate of school stabbings deaths in england than in the entire US.

Nov 8, 2012 ... A pregnant woman is stabbed repeatedly in the grounds of a Liverpool primary school, leading to the arrest of another woman.

Oct 9, 2012 ... A 17-year-old boy is remanded in custody charged with causing GBH with intent over an alleged stabbing at a Norfolk school

Oct 15, 2012 ... A pupil at the prestigious Langley School has been charged with stabbing another student.

Jul 23, 2012 ... Headteacher Katherine Ryan said School reported a pupil stabbing another pupil with a scalpel.

And the list goes on and on and on....

Englanders loves their knives.....

The number of stabbings in London that have led to injury has remained relatively consistent from 2009 to 2012, stabilising around 4000 stabbings a year...

In 2008 in London there were 29 teenagers murdered and 23 were killed with knives...how nice..

Murder and Homicide in Britian The most common method used for homicide is a knife or sharp instrument (approx 40% of homicides) for both men and women.The second most common method for males was punching or kicking, for female victims it was strangulation.


21 out of 32 London boroughs saw increases in knife crime offences from the 2010-11 financial year to the end of the 2011-12 financial year leading to a continuation of the four year upward trend. The greatest percentage increases (over +20%) occurred in Redbridge, Merton, Hillingdon, Richmond, Lambeth, Islington. Moderate reductions (better than -10%) have occurred in Enfield and Wandsworth. Lambeth with 1006 knife crime offences in 2011-12, a 28.8% increase (additional 187 offences) over the year, now has the highest level of knife crime in London, with Southwark coming the second highest with 961 knife crime offences.

Seems you all need some Knife Control laws passed.....then you can complain about our guns"

Don't forget Dunblane...

Rederic wrote:And incidently, the IRA, a terrorist organisation, were partly funded by the American public, which didn't stop until America suffered its own terrorist atrocity.

Rederic wrote:"Don't let the facts get in the way of a fairy tale".

Yes indeed. It appears you have your own fairy tales to contend with.

As I've stated previously, it's inevitable that knives and other methods will be used in the absence of guns. That's the truth.

So if we're to argue our points based purely on statistics then it's a losing game since all statistics are highly manipulable and are compiled relative to factors that are incongruent to each perspective and context.

Are you content with your lot over there? Then perhaps you should just be content with your lot over there. We'll handle things over here.

Spiral Out wrote:It's quite interesting that all of the posters advocating for gun control in the US are from the other countries like the UK or other UK-founded countries (Australia originating as an English criminal prison colony). Don't be jealous of our freedoms here in the US guys. We fought for it, and we fought well. You could have it too if you could just be as able and effective as Americans and stand up for yourselves.

Au contraire. I'm an American who served a year in Vietnam. I'm also a law and order advocate. But I'm not brain dead. And to imply that anyone who disagrees with you is from a second-rate country and doesn't appreciate freedom makes me wonder ... well, I'd better not go there. Listen, we have a lot to be proud of in the US. But to think that the US is superior to every other country in every way is absolutely ridiculous. Certain other countries are happier, some are more prosperous, some have a lot less violence, some are better educated, some are kinder on average, and some have a smaller percentage of jackasses.

Wilson,

Wilson wrote:I'm also a law and order advocate.

Great point Wilson. Yeah, I am too. And I have guns. What?? A law and order advocate that owns guns?? How can that possibly be?

I am a lawful and responsible gun owner so even if I owned 1000 fully automatic machine guns it still would have no effect on the law and order of society since I would not use them for any criminal activity, you know, because I'm not a criminal. It's the dipshits who can't control themselves who are the problem not the guns they have and probably gained illegally anyway.

I get my frustrations out with words, not with bullets. When you take people's words away then they just might resort to bullets if they are mentally unstable, which is what I think is one of the primary reasons for these random shootings. Gun control is a moronic and ineffective proposition no matter the false propaganda claims that people from other countries vomit all over these forums.

I appreciate your perspective but I'm not here to knuckle under or pander to anyone's particular sensitivities or emotions or to present anything other than what everyone else is presenting, that of basic opinions.

Wilson wrote:But to think that the US is superior to every other country in every way is absolutely ridiculous.

It just so happens that my particular opinion is that the US is superior in many ways (notice that I never claimed the US to be superior in every way and I'm not sure why you interpreted it that way either) to other countries and has no greater level of overall violence than any other country yet it is the same US guns and military might that the people of other countries seem to bitch about so much that do the lion's share of protecting all of these other countries from the bulk of the terrorist and despotic organizations and countries that threaten their safety and well-being every single day.

If anyone thinks that it's reasonable that only people affiliated with government organizations should have these types of weapons then I'd challenge them to justify that with any degree of reasonable logic. I'll save you some time and aggravation. It cannot be done.

There's a good reason why we don't have the types of violence they have in countries with strict gun laws.

The point that nobody seems to be able to get through their thick skulls is that no matter how many guns are out there, they can pose absolutely no threat unless in the hands of violent criminals. So then we need to address the criminals, not the guns. Gun control only potentially works with violence using guns, but it doesn't solve the violence problem itself.

Gun control will only cause people to enact their violence through other means as witnessed by the other types of violence that the UK, Canada, Australia and every other country experiences every day. Is violence by any other means any better? Killing a bunch of people with a machete is so much more civilized, right?

What good does it do to scrutinize any one specific type of violence? It only seeks to achieve some short-sighted idiotic agenda.

Wake up people. Gun control is the lazy man's solution to a greater problem.

This entire thread has become a pointless subjective line-drawing exercise with the additional pointlessness of a consensus to advance moronic concepts. Look back through the weapons-control efforts throughout the history of various countries and you'll see that it just doesn't work.

If you're going to try to control guns then the ONLY way to do it effectively is to eliminate them absolutely worldwide. I would support such an effort.

Good luck to you all in the senseless jibberjabber to follow.

~ Spiral Out

Spiral Out wrote:Wilson,

Wilson wrote:I'm also a law and order advocate.

Great point Wilson. Yeah, I am too. And I have guns. What?? A law and order advocate that owns guns?? How can that possibly be?

I'm sure that in fact most gun advocates (except for criminals, of course) are law and order people as well. Most gun control advocates are NOT law and order people; they tend to have more sympathy for lawbreakers. Not a big deal, but I'm in a minority here. The classic liberal position on guns; the classic conservative position on law and order.

It just so happens that my particular opinion is that the US is superior in many ways (notice that I never claimed the US to be superior in every way and I'm not sure why you interpreted it that way either) to other countries and has no greater level of overall violence than any other country yet it is the same US guns and military might that the people of other countries seem to bitch about so much that do the lion's share of protecting all of these other countries from the bulk of the terrorist and despotic organizations and countries that threaten their safety and well-being every single day.

I did exaggerate your position but in my defense I thought it was bad form to be so generally insulting to people from other countries, some of which are clearly superior in some ways to ours.

If anyone thinks that it's reasonable that only people affiliated with government organizations should have these types of weapons then I'd challenge them to justify that with any degree of reasonable logic. I'll save you some time and aggravation. It cannot be done.

Not to your satisfaction, clearly, but perhaps to an unbiased referee, if the objective is fewer violent deaths.

In summary: Mass murders and other shootings are random (not to be expected in a society obsessed with gun ownership, and whose population includes the mentally unstable - even just 0.001% of US population = >300,000 'dipshits')

The enforced politeness of the USA is exemplary - it's how all the world should do freedom.

Attempts at gun control are laziness - why bother?

Disagreeing with any of this makes you a moron.

Yeah… what did I say about statistics? Keep trying guys.



*According to the FBI, the #1 weapon used in violent crimes is a baseball bat.

According to the death rates in the chart, it seems that we must first control tobacco use, medical errors, unintentional injuries, alcohol abuse, motor vehicle accidents, unintentional poisonings, drug abuse, unintentional falls and non-firearm homicides before we try to control firearms which have a statistically low death rate.

I have more statistics charts ready to go…

You said:

no greater level of overall violence than any other country

I showed that your statement is untrue.

You then ignore the evidence that shows your statement to be untrue & go off at a completely different tangent.

This is a typical gun supporters tactic. Ignore the evidence & tell untruths, just like in post number 212 you are shown the evidence & yet keep repeating the lie.

Spiral Out wrote:the US … has no greater level of overall violence than any other country

Rederic wrote:I showed that your statement is untrue.

You did nothing of the sort.

You had provided a link to statistics showing violence using firearms relative to other countries. My position states that overall violence (all forms) is functionally equal across all societies, showing that gun control will simply shift the method of violence to some other form.

So I then provide a link to the disparity in the significantly higher number of stabbings per capita in the UK relative to the low number in the US. And that proves my point above. So in the UK you have a lower number of shootings but a higher number of stabbings and "intimate violence" which shows that the violence simply shifts according to available implements.

So nice try but try again…

Another gun-control-propaganda ********-destroying chart for your viewing displeasure can be found here.

Spiral Out wrote:Yeah… what did I say about statistics? Keep trying guys.



*According to the FBI, the #1 weapon used in violent crimes is a baseball bat.

According to the death rates in the chart, it seems that we must first control tobacco use, medical errors, unintentional injuries, alcohol abuse, motor vehicle accidents, unintentional poisonings, drug abuse, unintentional falls and non-firearm homicides before we try to control firearms which have a statistically low death rate.

I have more statistics charts ready to go…

Thanks for the chart Spiral Out. Here is another chart they {the gun control group} should look at but probably won't - After all they will say 'It can't happen here'.

The JPFO Genocide Chart
[JPFO.org 2002)

This is derived from the JPFO website page - as a more printer-friendly option. The complete web page is accompanied by a detailed promotion of the Death by “Gun Control” book, written by Aaron Zelman and Richard W.Stevens - and available from the JPFO store . It works on a level that nobody can dispute: documented world history. Here's the Formula: Hatred + Government + Disarmed Civilians = Genocide What makes the argument so powerful? Two factors. First, it makes common sense: unarmed defenseless people have no hope against armed aggressors. Second, it states the historical truth: evil governments did wipe out 170,000,000 innocent non-military lives in the 20th Century alone. See the film “Innocents Betrayed” for further chilling evidence, also available from the JPFO store. When the gun prohibitionists quote a statistic about how many people are killed by firearms misuse, the discussion sometimes bogs down into whose crime statistics to believe and how to count crimes vs. the defensive firearm uses. In the 20th Century: • Governments murdered four times as many civilians as were killed in all the international and domestic wars combined. • Governments murdered millions more people than were killed by common criminals. How could governments kill so many people? The governments had the power - and the people, the victims, were unable to resist. The victims were unarmed.

To see the complete chart {and source of quote} with the 170,000,000 CIVILIANS killed indirectly or directly by gun control laws and the brief summary of the laws themselves check out this link:

http://jpfo.org/pdf02/genocide-chart.pdf

PS: And I thought it was only 55,000,000 killed by gun control laws when apparently it was 170,000,000! HOW MANY MORE DEATHS WILL IT TAKE BEFORE THEY ACCEPT THAT GUN CONTROL DOES NOT SAVE LIVES - iT AIDS AND ABETS MURDER AND GENOCIDE

Hi Spiral Out,

Thank you for staying in the debate. I tried to talk to someone much earlier in the thread and he seemed to storm off in a huff when faced with any facts he didn't like.

I'm interested to know, in real terms, where exactly is the added freedom in having a gun? Is it largely symbolic? Why do you feel more free in the US than a person might in say, the UK?

You are still subject to the Government rules and regulations, and required to pay your taxes and be civil. You have no increased right to resist arrest. You are in reality, not at risk from genocide. So where is the added freedom?

I can appreciate that it is a different kettle of fish if you have grown up with guns as part of your culture and they are the norm. If you have been brought up to think they are good then I'm sure for you personally, they are. Isn't this much the same as being brought up to be Catholic or Muslim? It is just what we are taught, and a cultural identity. It isn't more intrinsically right or wrong than other culture- just different.

What you mentioned earlier about your feeling that the US is the best country in the world and the most free, reminds me of the ethos of some who believe their religion is the best and every other religion is 'second rate'. It is a sort of aggressive sense of identity which is inherently confrontational. Isn't it pure luck where we are born and to whom? Shouldn't we just be grateful that we haven't been born in some desperately poor area where there is little education or healthcare rather than having a 'no I'm better than you!' contest? I prefer to think more in terms of a collective identity as part of a world culture. A problem in one are, is a problem for all of us.

Young men especially all over the world tend to get in to more trouble with gangs and crime. Perhaps it is time that there was some other facility than young offenders prison, such as a training camp where they have discipline and exercise and learn a trade, much like the army but without the military context?

Also, I would point out from your last graph, that it is extremely difficult to pinpoint accurate, unbiased statistics, especially on the internet. I would be especially mistrustful of anything that specifically has inflammatory or sarcastic comments on them(!).

Hello Lucylu,

Lucylu wrote:I'm interested to know, in real terms, where exactly is the added freedom in having a gun?

Are you asking where the added freedom is in the freedom to enjoy something one finds enjoyable? Isn't it obvious?

Lucylu wrote:Why do you feel more free in the US than a person might in say, the UK?

The same reason I feel more free than a woman might in say, Iran.

Lucylu wrote:So where is the added freedom?

The freedom to rely on my own abilities and take personal responsibility for my actions and my family's safety.

Lucylu wrote:Isn't this much the same as being brought up to be Catholic or Muslim? It is just what we are taught, and a cultural identity. It isn't more intrinsically right or wrong than other culture- just different.

Right. So then the people living in other countries should just be content with their lot and mind their own business.

Lucylu wrote:What you mentioned earlier about your feeling that the US is the best country in the world and the most free, reminds me of the ethos of some who believe their religion is the best and every other religion is 'second rate'. It is a sort of aggressive sense of identity which is inherently confrontational.

I don't mind confrontation at all, especially in person.

Lucylu wrote:Isn't it pure luck where we are born and to whom? Shouldn't we just be grateful that we haven't been born in some desperately poor area where there is little education or healthcare rather than having a 'no I'm better than you!' contest?

I am very grateful for living in the US. If I feel that the US is a better country than the UK or whoever then that's my rightful opinion and right to express it. If someone takes offense then that's their own issue. I'm not here to pander to nationalist sensitivities.

Lucylu wrote:Also, I would point out from your last graph, that it is extremely difficult to pinpoint accurate, unbiased statistics, especially on the internet.

Yeah, so why aren't you also questioning the gun control statistics? We seem to find what we're looking for, don't we? As I said before, statistics are highly manipulable garbage. So why wouldn't I join in the statistic-slinging fun?

Either way, my position on this issue is rock-solid. The logic is irrefutable.

Gun Homicide (1995-2012) averaged: USA: 1 per 25,430 people Australia: 1/432,910

But don't worry folks in the US, you'll be fine. Just remember to take Marlon Brando's advice: "Do it to him before he does it to you"