Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sy Borg]

There's strong feminist support for Palestine too. Where were these feminist protesters while Arab women were being oppressed? Why weren't they marching in the streets about that?

Failure to declare support for worthy-cause-B does not demean, detract from, or diminish, the value of support for worthy-cause-A.

What it shows is they didn't care about the repression of Arab women. If they did they would have been out on the streets. They care about a hospital under siege but not about the use of the hospital as a military base. Do they think that, if attacked, Israel declares war on hospitals? Why is there no criticism by the left of Hamas's war crime of using the ill and vulnerable as human shields as cover? It's this kind of hypocrisy that has driven me from the left.

Accusations like that are not always credible. In a war situation, both sides, and their allies, feel free to indulge in propaganda — lies. Doubt in such circumstances, or at least scepticism, seems to make some sense. It's not hypocrisy if you can't be sure of your data.

It's all very simple. What are people making the most fuss about?

Fuss over the plight of Arab women? Not much.

Fuss over Uyghurs? Even less.

Fuss over the plight of Arab gays? None.

Fuss over Palestinians? Violent protests around the country, full of anti-Semitic signage and messaging, and a flood of fury in the media.

No need for me to engage in propaganda - reality is providing it.

If there are groups like Queers for Palestine and Feminists for Palestine, I look forward to more interesting groups appearing in the future like Atheists for Islam, Homeless for Corporations and Arsenal for the Spurs.

[Consul]

I am so sick of getting the pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian dross served on in he media each day. The good thing is that most people I talk to in Australia are awake to the one sidedness.

I already said that by "pro-Israelism" I mean the view that the state of Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself against those who think it has no right to exist and seek to destroy it. Pro-Israelism thus defined doesn't entail "anti-Palestinianism", the latter being the view that the Palestinians have no right to get a state of their own. I reject anti-Palestinianism thus defined! That said, I am absolutely against Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamist Palestinians in general.

They don't do Faux News but most of the commercial media here are as bad as Faux News. But people here know that the Palestinians. over the last 70 years. have been dispossessed, disenfranchised and marginalised by Israel backed by what has been the US hegemony. The Palestinians have been backed into the ghetto that is Gazza with no hope of a future. The Israelis would do well to remember the Warsaw Ghetto. The jews did whatever they could to survive and if that had entailed taking German hostages, who could have blamed them? Why should we expect the Palestinians to do? Just throw in the towel? When people are backed into a corner they will fight. Israel must either completely exterminate the Palestinians (which it seems they are trying to so) or give them some hope of a Palestinian state. I loath both their damned religions but human beings are not just their religions. People must also have hope in this life. The Palestinians have a right to exist as a free and autonomous people. But Israel shows no sign of giving them any such hope.

Your comparison distorts the historical facts, because the Gaza Strip is not the new Warsaw Ghetto, the Palestinians are not the new Jews, and the Israelis are not the new Nazis. Your accusation of genocidal intentions on part of the Israelis is especially groundless.

[Consul]

It's all very simple. What are people making the most fuss about?

Fuss over the plight of Arab women? Not much.

Fuss over Uyghurs? Even less.

Fuss over the plight of Arab gays? None.

Fuss over Palestinians? Violent protests around the country, full of anti-Semitic signage and messaging, and a flood of fury in the media.

Why? Because nothing is more fun than hating "white" Jews! [irony mode: ON]

[Consul]

You must be getting your news from authorized sources, the purely corporate owned media or direct from Israel, same source.

Okay, I confess all my posts are sponsored by the Rothschilds.

[Sy Borg]

It's all very simple. What are people making the most fuss about?

Fuss over the plight of Arab women? Not much.

Fuss over Uyghurs? Even less.

Fuss over the plight of Arab gays? None.

Fuss over Palestinians? Violent protests around the country, full of anti-Semitic signage and messaging, and a flood of fury in the media.

Why? Because nothing is more fun than hating "white" Jews! [irony mode: ON]

I think it might be more an extrapolation of general rebellion against capitalism. Whomever seems to have the most power is deemed the "evil capitalist oppressor". Whomever is the weaker party is the "unfairly oppressed". Never mind if the weaker party is weak because its leaders keep kicking own goals.

Many Palestinians wish they had proper leadership rather than Hamas - leaders who can help build a society, not obsess over old grudges. The societies that move past the blame game and focus on positive development are the ones who prosper. Those who cannot let go, who try to gain the modest advantages of victimhood rather than the much greater advantages of positivity, are destined to fall by the wayside, largely by their own hand. This dynamic as common amongst individuals as it is in larger groups, including nations.

[Consul]

The new global movement of the BRICS is an attempt to create a better world, a multipolar world, a more humane world.

Yea, that's exactly what Putin's Russia and Xi Jinping's China attempt to create. *DUH!*

[Consul]

Many Palestinians wish they had proper leadership rather than Hamas…

Yes, indeed; and they are the ones who deserve our support and need to be given a voice!

"Al Jazeera Reporter Cuts off Gaza Hospital Interview After Patient Says Hamas Is Hiding Among Wounded

A clip from an Al Jazeera broadcast is circulating online after the network's correspondent reporting from a Gaza hospital appears to abruptly end a live interview with an injured Palestinian man as he starts criticizing the presence of Hamas militants in the complex.
The Al Jazeera reporter was at the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in Gaza, interviewing an elderly Palestinian man who said, according to a rough translation: "What's happening is criminal! Why is the resistance hiding among us? Why don't they go to hell and hide there? They are not resistance!"
In the clip, the reporter, whose identity is unclear, then turns away from his interview subject and appears to quickly change the subject. The man continues to talk and tries to follow the journalist, even as he's walking away from him."

Source: https://themessenger.com/news/al-jazeer ... ng-wounded

[Consul]

"History contains an ocean of injustice, most of it unremedied and now lying beyond correction in this world. Even with respect to recent crimes, the attempt at human justice is haphazard and its achievement fragmentary. Those sober facts oblige realism. Yet human beings seem to have a deep instinct for justice that will not let us settle for less, obliges us to hope against hope and drives us to our knees. The resultant posture, situated between cynicism and utopianism, is well captured by Reinhold Niebuhr’s famous prayer: 'God give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things that should be changed, and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other.'"

(Biggar, Nigel. Colonialism: A Moral Reckoning. London: William Collins, 2023. pp. 12-3)

[Pattern-chaser]

...by "pro-Israelism" I mean the view that the state of Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself against those who think it has no right to exist and seek to destroy it.

And what of those whose lands are occupied by Israeli (i.e. USA) military forces, and radical (Zionist?) 'settlers'? What 'rights' do the Palestinian people have to reclaim their own lands? Don't *they* have a right to exist (as an independent country) too?

[Consul]

...by "pro-Israelism" I mean the view that the state of Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself against those who think it has no right to exist and seek to destroy it.

And what of those whose lands are occupied by Israeli (i.e. USA) military forces, and radical (Zionist?) 'settlers'? What 'rights' do the Palestinian people have to reclaim their own lands? Don't *they* have a right to exist (as an independent country) too?

I've already answered this question in my previous post: "Pro-Israelism thus defined doesn't entail "anti-Palestinianism", the latter being the view that the Palestinians have no right to get a state of their own. I reject anti-Palestinianism thus defined!"

[popeye1945]

The new global movement of the BRICS is an attempt to create a better world, a multipolar world, a more humane world.

Yea, that's exactly what Putin's Russia and Xi Jinping's China attempt to create. *DUH!*

At least half the world is encompassed in your DUH, the arrogance is why they will succeed, and the American Empire will fall.

[Pattern-chaser]

I've already answered this question in my previous post: "Pro-Israelism thus defined doesn't entail "anti-Palestinianism", the latter being the view that the Palestinians have no right to get a state of their own. I reject anti-Palestinianism thus defined!"

But in the context of the War on Palestine, "Pro-Israelism" does seem to entail an "anti-Palestinian" stance...? After all, the current struggle is between those two nations.

[Consul]

Consider "Queers for Palestine", for example. That was pure virtue signalling because Palestine is hostile towards LGBT+ rights. Really, they should be protesting against Palestine for queer rights, but they instead follow the mainstream media in whipping up hatred against Israel for defending itself.

I read somewhere that "Queers for Palestine!" is like "Chickens for KFC!".

[Sy Borg]

Consider "Queers for Palestine", for example. That was pure virtue signalling because Palestine is hostile towards LGBT+ rights. Really, they should be protesting against Palestine for queer rights, but they instead follow the mainstream media in whipping up hatred against Israel for defending itself.

I read somewhere that "Queers for Palestine!" is like "Chickens for KFC!". 8)

I recently saw a video where a Palestinian man being interviewed about gays supporting Palestine said that Palestine would accept help from anyone, but not from homosexuals.

Feminists for Palestine is equally incongruous. There is something ostensibly noble about supporting people who despise or disrespect you because you believe they are subject to injustice. However, the "nobleness" is soon exposed as being just an excuse to complain about broken social contracts when they refuse to criticise Hamas embedding their military bases amongst the most vulnerable for political leverage.

While I think that complaints about society breaking social contracts are fair, we are seeing this general sense of discontent being projected into other issues. The result is a belief that all dominant entities are bad and all underdogs are good, as though one's actions has no bearing on one's situation in life. While good and bad luck can play a significant role, people, organisations and nations at least at least control their destinies in part.

[Consul]

While I think that complaints about society breaking social contracts are fair, we are seeing this general sense of discontent being projected into other issues. The result is a belief that all dominant entities are bad and all underdogs are good, as though one's actions has no bearing on one's situation in life. While good and bad luck can play a significant role, people, organisations and nations at least at least control their destinies in part.

The Woke Left has a Manichaean worldview: Either you belong to the good forces of light, or you belong to the evil forces of darkness.