Philosophy Discussion Forums

cosinus wrote: ↑March 26th, 2021, 6:59 am I think so, especially in case of Christianity.

Large societies do not last when people aren't willing to sacrifice their own reputation and career for a greater cause.
They will lie to cover failure,
they will lie to cover lie,
they will only employ liars to cover lie,
they will try to control the narrative to cover lie,
they will try to control the media to cover lie,
they will even murder to cover lie,
they will denounce the church to cover lie,
they will cancel to cover lie,
until the whole world is covered in an alternative reality full of corruption.
And evil becomes good and good becomes evil.
We see it happen right now within western civilization.

Communism of the last century proofs my point.
It's a good example of what happens when Religions are suppressed.

Any questions?

Huh? Please give an example of a "large society" without a "greater cause".

Your commentary implies some societies are lie-free, I am unaware of any.

Communism was/is just one flavor of totalitarianism, which used to be ubiquitous. Only a simpleton would be unaware of theocratic totalitarian states.

philoreaderguy wrote: ↑March 17th, 2007, 11:29 am I recently was told by someone that religion is a good thing even if it is false. He said that it's good because it brings people together and teaches morality. Is this true?

It can be true, but it isn't always, sadly. It does bring people together, and it does teach morality, but not all non-members of that religion necessarily agree that the morality is a good or acceptable one. But that's no criticism of religion, any morality will seem wrong to some.

You have a basic feeling that God and religion is real. Go with that. Instead of cluttering your mind with all that man has to offer as far as religions and answers, seek out Him. Read, read, read. The Bible, Christian literature, books written by Biblical scholars, pastors, evangelists, and participate in some sort of Bible study - online, in person, whatever. You have to seek Him to find your answers to your questions. Once you do, you won't have to ask anyone if the religion is good even if you think it's false. You will have your own personal relationship with The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. Every day you will battle the seeds of doubt from every direction....it's getting really tough out here. But if you stand firm and tall in Christ your reward is eternal salvation.

Fellowmater wrote: ↑April 12th, 2021, 5:22 am You have a basic feeling that God and religion is real. Go with that. Instead of cluttering your mind with all that man has to offer as far as religions and answers, seek out Him. Read, read, read. The Bible, Christian literature, books written by Biblical scholars, pastors, evangelists, and participate in some sort of Bible study - online, in person, whatever. You have to seek Him to find your answers to your questions. Once you do, you won't have to ask anyone if the religion is good even if you think it's false. You will have your own personal relationship with The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. Every day you will battle the seeds of doubt from every direction....it's getting really tough out here. But if you stand firm and tall in Christ your reward is eternal salvation.

Good point, christianity is down 12% in the last decade in the US (most of the drop in protestantism, less so for catholicism), meanwhile the group with the largest gain is "no religious affiliation", up 9%.

Why do you think that is?

Religion is good because most religions teach that people should love each other and discourage selfishness.
The problem comes when religious beliefs offend people's intelligence when scientific discoveries reveal new information.
Then it becomes a matter of deciding whether you are going to follow the truth about reality or remain in a system because it promotes good morals on a whole.
If religion limits the progress of the consciousness of humanity, then I think it's best for the old systems to be left behind. The teachings don't have to be abandoned, because there is a lot of wisdom to be found in them. However people shouldn't be afraid to be openminded about the views of others and think critically about their values.

Religion can be Great or Horrible. I m a pagan. Pagans are so very liberal and can very easily accept nature and CHANGE! It’s when religion has such fixed dogma that it can not CHANGE with TIME that’s really bad. Paganism gives us faith in afterlife. But we can accept that things change and that spirituality doesn’t exist in a book of laws written thousand years ago

Religion can good or it can be really bad (whether it’s true or myth). I think that it’s really really hard for man to exist without a religion. Man needs to fulfill a moral hole in his spirit and man is the first animal to contemplate life after death. Religion can give him a purpose and fill in this hole. But, a tyrant (like the Abrahamic faith) can use it to control people.

Slavedevice wrote:Religion can good or it can be really bad (whether it’s true or myth). I think that it’s really really hard for man to exist without a religion. Man needs to fulfill a moral hole in his spirit and man is the first animal to contemplate life after death. Religion can give him a purpose and fill in this hole. But, a tyrant (like the Abrahamic faith) can use it to control people.

I don't know your background, but in my experience people tend to take the view that it's difficult to live without some form of religion if they live in an environment in which religion plays a large role for most people they know (even if they're not religious themselves). I think it's always very difficult to imagine oneself out of an environment in which one has always lived. It's easy to assume that whatever is ubiquitous in that environment must be essential to life. Aside from being a general backdrop to western culture, I've never had religion in my life. Nobody in my currently alive immediate family is religious and, as far as I know, almost nobody that I know as a friend or work colleague is religious. That's not to say that they're anti-religious. It's just not part of life, except as historical interest. And it really isn't a big deal. You really don't need religion, or anything like it, to fill any kind of hole or to give your life meaning. For my part, the meaning in my life comes largely from people I love and things I enjoy doing and learning about.

I think this is one reason why a particular kind of theist (the kind that tends to come to places like this) often tells atheists that their disbelief in this particular thing constitutes a kind of religion itself. It seems that they just can't imagine what it's like for religion not to matter one way or the other. Perhaps it's the same with other things that are ubiquitous in the environments in which we live. If it's ever-present then (we assume) it must be essential.

Slavedevice wrote: ↑October 25th, 2021, 7:02 am Religion can good or it can be really bad (whether it’s true or myth). I think that it’s really really hard for man to exist without a religion. Man needs to fulfill a moral hole in his spirit and man is the first animal to contemplate life after death. Religion can give him a purpose and fill in this hole. But, a tyrant (like the Abrahamic faith) can use it to control people.

"The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people [bold added].

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo."

Lucanor- what your whole three paragraphs are talking about is Semetic/Abrahamic religion! It’s not an accurate dissertation of Non-Abrahamic religion at all.

Slavedevice wrote: ↑October 26th, 2021, 6:57 am Lucanor- what your whole three paragraphs are talking about is Semetic/Abrahamic religion! It’s not an accurate dissertation of Non-Abrahamic religion at all.

There's no mention in it of particular features of Abrahamic religions, but since you bring it up: what's in other religions that will not apply to that description?

Non Abrahamic Religion doesn’t promulgate SUFFERING. It’s Abrahamic religion that promulgated suffering and guilt. In my religion man is truly the maker of his own destiny. Afterlife is the realm of the diety

philoreaderguy wrote: ↑March 17th, 2007, 11:29 am I recently was told by someone that religion is a good thing even if it is false. He said that it's good because it brings people together and teaches morality. Is this true? Is religion good for people even if it isn't false?

Here's some people being "brought together".
[censored image of ISIS gang.]

And they are brought together for NO OTHER REASON but religion

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑October 26th, 2021, 4:52 pm

philoreaderguy wrote: ↑March 17th, 2007, 11:29 am I recently was told by someone that religion is a good thing even if it is false. He said that it's good because it brings people together and teaches morality. Is this true? Is religion good for people even if it isn't false?

Here's some people being "brought together".
[censored image of ISIS gang.]

And they are brought together for NO OTHER REASON but religion

Religions are not simple constructs but are composed of myths, ritual practices, and codified moralities. ISIS likes violence, and violence itself has been claimed to be a ritual that psychologically binds together the members of the group who share in it.

Sculptor1 wrote:And they are brought together for NO OTHER REASON but religion

I'd say they're brought together by the strong human desire to belong to something - to be part of a strongly united tribe - of which the religion, in that particular case, is an expression. When people went to join what they thought was going to be an Islamic State, stretching across Syria and Iraq and ignoring such alien impositions as the Sykes–Picot line, they went to belong.