Philosophy Discussion Forums

Maxreview wrote: ↑February 17th, 2023, 12:23 pm I fell this issue is entirely circumstantial. It's a moral dilemma and paradox, too. If the fetus is threatening the life of the mother, then it may be wise to terminate the pregnancy. Sometimes, the parents may not just be ready to have the baby, so I feel its their call to make and no one should judge them for doing what they think is best for themselves. But also, if we view it from the baby's view, it's murder in some way. Sometimes, raising the child in-vitro, giving it to a surrogate, or deciding to keep it to give it for adoption may be a nice idea where applicable.

You are correct that the subject contains issues of competing interests. However such a situation is not a paradox, and while can be a dilemma, usually isn't. That is, we routinely make decisions that revolve around competing interests. Basically, one set of interests are deemed to be greater than the other.

Scottie wrote: ↑January 29th, 2012, 1:25 am The problem I have is that the position to allow abortion does not affect the right to choose for the people who choose not to abort. No one is for forcing anyone to have an abortion against their will.

The position which denies abortion does affect the right to choose for those who choose to abort. Some one IS attempting to force that person to bring the pregnancy to term.

No one has proven that a fetus has rights independently of the mother. I don't think we get to appeal to the big man in the sky as the basis for law.

But the issue is that people abuse privileges that they're given and this is no exception to the rule and it's unfortunate that the majority of people that get abortions have had more than one in fact a very high percentage of them have had three or four as if they're using it as a contraceptive not a last resort and that is inhumane from a different angle.

MAYA EL wrote: ↑March 8th, 2023, 10:52 pm

Scottie wrote: ↑January 29th, 2012, 1:25 am The problem I have is that the position to allow abortion does not affect the right to choose for the people who choose not to abort. No one is for forcing anyone to have an abortion against their will.

The position which denies abortion does affect the right to choose for those who choose to abort. Some one IS attempting to force that person to bring the pregnancy to term.

No one has proven that a fetus has rights independently of the mother. I don't think we get to appeal to the big man in the sky as the basis for law.

But the issue is that people abuse privileges that they're given and this is no exception to the rule and it's unfortunate that the majority of people that get abortions have had more than one in fact a very high percentage of them have had three or four as if they're using it as a contraceptive not a last resort and that is inhumane from a different angle.

Commenting on extreme examples does not logically support making it illegal for everyone.

LuckyR wrote: ↑March 9th, 2023, 12:36 pm

MAYA EL wrote: ↑March 8th, 2023, 10:52 pm

Scottie wrote: ↑January 29th, 2012, 1:25 am The problem I have is that the position to allow abortion does not affect the right to choose for the people who choose not to abort. No one is for forcing anyone to have an abortion against their will.

The position which denies abortion does affect the right to choose for those who choose to abort. Some one IS attempting to force that person to bring the pregnancy to term.

No one has proven that a fetus has rights independently of the mother. I don't think we get to appeal to the big man in the sky as the basis for law.

But the issue is that people abuse privileges that they're given and this is no exception to the rule and it's unfortunate that the majority of people that get abortions have had more than one in fact a very high percentage of them have had three or four as if they're using it as a contraceptive not a last resort and that is inhumane from a different angle.

Commenting on extreme examples does not logically support making it illegal for everyone.

It better justifies taking away a privilege that was unwisely GIVEN to them yes

MAYA EL wrote: ↑March 26th, 2023, 1:29 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑March 9th, 2023, 12:36 pm

MAYA EL wrote: ↑March 8th, 2023, 10:52 pm

Scottie wrote: ↑January 29th, 2012, 1:25 am The problem I have is that the position to allow abortion does not affect the right to choose for the people who choose not to abort. No one is for forcing anyone to have an abortion against their will.

The position which denies abortion does affect the right to choose for those who choose to abort. Some one IS attempting to force that person to bring the pregnancy to term.

No one has proven that a fetus has rights independently of the mother. I don't think we get to appeal to the big man in the sky as the basis for law.

But the issue is that people abuse privileges that they're given and this is no exception to the rule and it's unfortunate that the majority of people that get abortions have had more than one in fact a very high percentage of them have had three or four as if they're using it as a contraceptive not a last resort and that is inhumane from a different angle.

Commenting on extreme examples does not logically support making it illegal for everyone.

It better justifies taking away a privilege that was unwisely GIVEN to them yes

"better"? Better than what? It's easy to argue against nonarguments.

MAYA EL wrote: ↑March 8th, 2023, 10:52 pm

Scottie wrote: ↑January 29th, 2012, 1:25 am The problem I have is that the position to allow abortion does not affect the right to choose for the people who choose not to abort. No one is for forcing anyone to have an abortion against their will.

The position which denies abortion does affect the right to choose for those who choose to abort. Some one IS attempting to force that person to bring the pregnancy to term.

No one has proven that a fetus has rights independently of the mother. I don't think we get to appeal to the big man in the sky as the basis for law.

But the issue is that people abuse privileges that they're given and this is no exception to the rule and it's unfortunate that the majority of people that get abortions have had more than one in fact a very high percentage of them have had three or four as if they're using it as a contraceptive not a last resort and that is inhumane from a different angle.

If you are maing statistical claims you should take the trouble to cite your information.
The fact is that less that half of women having had one abortion, have another - that is not a "majority".

MAYA EL wrote: ↑November 23rd, 2022, 4:46 pm People abuse privileges and if we look at the types of people getting abortions it's largely African-American women and not just one they have several each

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑November 24th, 2022, 6:19 am I smell toxic racism, and it is Hitler strong.

Those aren't the words I would've chosen, but it's what I intended to say when I read the above comment.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 15th, 2023, 12:07 pm

MAYA EL wrote: ↑November 23rd, 2022, 4:46 pm People abuse privileges and if we look at the types of people getting abortions it's largely African-American women and not just one they have several each

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑November 24th, 2022, 6:19 am I smell toxic racism, and it is Hitler strong.

Those aren't the words I would've chosen, but it's what I intended to say when I read the above comment.

I concur but I think you might have misquoted me.
Maya El's last two responses to me, I had to report so I wonder if someone else said that.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 15th, 2023, 12:07 pm

MAYA EL wrote: ↑November 23rd, 2022, 4:46 pm People abuse privileges and if we look at the types of people getting abortions it's largely African-American women and not just one they have several each

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑November 24th, 2022, 6:19 am I smell toxic racism, and it is Hitler strong.

Those aren't the words I would've chosen, but it's what I intended to say when I read the above comment.

Sorry yes I did say that. Way back in November last year.
My reward was to be called "woke and racist", which I found rather amusing.
I stand by those words given the review of what I was responding to.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑May 15th, 2023, 1:27 pm

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 15th, 2023, 12:07 pm

MAYA EL wrote: ↑November 23rd, 2022, 4:46 pm People abuse privileges and if we look at the types of people getting abortions it's largely African-American women and not just one they have several each

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑November 24th, 2022, 6:19 am I smell toxic racism, and it is Hitler strong.

Those aren't the words I would've chosen, but it's what I intended to say when I read the above comment.

Sorry yes I did say that. Way back in November last year.
My reward was to be called "woke and racist", which I found rather amusing.
I stand by those words given the review of what I was responding to.

My mistake. I, too, stand by what I wrote, but I stumbled onto Maya's post yesterday and somehow mistook it for a more recent addition.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 15th, 2023, 12:07 pm

MAYA EL wrote: ↑November 23rd, 2022, 4:46 pm People abuse privileges and if we look at the types of people getting abortions it's largely African-American women and not just one they have several each

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑November 24th, 2022, 6:19 am I smell toxic racism, and it is Hitler strong.

Those aren't the words I would've chosen, but it's what I intended to say when I read the above comment.

Well you can get over it and be an adult like the rest of us because that wasn't just my mean bad guy opinion that's a fact based off of statistics and believe it or not it's not my opinion it's fact and if you don't like the facts grow a thicker skin cuz I'm sorry but the truth is human beings abuse privileges and Technology and in this situation abortion is not being used responsibly it's being used mainly by African Americans as a form of birth control as opposed to a truly emergency only and/or Last Resort type of method the average African American woman that had an abortion has had three or four so don't shoot the messenger here

MAYA EL wrote: ↑May 17th, 2023, 1:23 am [T]he truth is human beings abuse privileges and Technology and in this situation abortion is not being used responsibly it's being used mainly by African Americans as a form of birth control as opposed to a truly emergency only and/or Last Resort type of method the average African American woman that had an abortion has had three or four so don't shoot the messenger here

Abortion is not an American issue. Abortion is used by African Africans, British Brits, Australian Aussies and Japanese Japanese. Or, as we call them in countries where we don't need to own other nationalities, Africans, Brits, Aussies, and Japanese.

Abortion is a form of birth control. But other methods are quicker, easier and more convenient, and therefore preferred by almost everyone. Abortion is a last resort for all who use it. No-one would subject themselves to an abortion if they could've avoided the need in the first place. But pregnancies occur for all kinds of reasons, requiring all kinds of responses. Sometimes, abortion is the appropriate response.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 17th, 2023, 12:06 pm

MAYA EL wrote: ↑May 17th, 2023, 1:23 am [T]he truth is human beings abuse privileges and Technology and in this situation abortion is not being used responsibly it's being used mainly by African Americans as a form of birth control as opposed to a truly emergency only and/or Last Resort type of method the average African American woman that had an abortion has had three or four so don't shoot the messenger here

Abortion is not an American issue. Abortion is used by African Africans, British Brits, Australian Aussies and Japanese Japanese. Or, as we call them in countries where we don't need to own other nationalities, Africans, Brits, Aussies, and Japanese.

Abortion is a form of birth control. But other methods are quicker, easier and more convenient, and therefore preferred by almost everyone. Abortion is a last resort for all who use it. No-one would subject themselves to an abortion if they could've avoided the need in the first place. But pregnancies occur for all kinds of reasons, requiring all kinds of responses. Sometimes, abortion is the appropriate response.

If someone says X should be illegal because of this or that episode of misuse or abuse, if looked at logically this type of argument means: X is a reasonable option when used appropriately and thus the original emphasis on misuse implies that there is a correct use, ie it is reasonable and should be legal, perhaps with regulation. In other words it isn't an argument that X is unreasonable and should be banned.

Did you guys know there is a 'vasectomy valve' recently come on the market? Its a tall order, but if men/boys had it fitted and switched off by default, there would be no unwanted pregnancies!

You just switch in on when you actually want to get someone pregnant.

amorphos_ii wrote: ↑May 17th, 2023, 8:19 pm Did you guys know there is a 'vasectomy valve' recently come on the market? Its a tall order, but if men/boys had it fitted and switched off by default, there would be no unwanted pregnancies!

You just switch in on when you actually want to get someone pregnant.

Two things, it's my understanding is that it hasn't been approved by the FDA and all male contraceptives suffer from the "honey, we don't need to use condoms, I've got the valve closed. Yeah, rriiiight!".