Philosophy Discussion Forums

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 31st, 2023, 4:19 pm A leave-it-to-karma approach means that laws are pointless, and we return to the law of the jungle. Then, of course, some religious leader will decide to make exceptions and mete out Earthly punishments for the faithless while leaving other punishments to their deity.

Religions are now so toxic and problematic in so many ways that its seems the only solution is complete disbandment. However, religion has something in its favour; it distracts leaders with superstitious nonsense to the point where they can only consider their ideologies in simplistic, childish ways.

By contrast, the CCP shows what politicians can do when they are not distracted and achieve a laser focus on their ideology. At this point, the ideology and leader become quasi-religious, so focused on imposing their ideology that people cannot escape its grip.

The problem is true. No doubt.

But, solution is not complete disbandment. It only leads to more Earthly destruction. Fear implanted by Religions had done a good role. As that Fer lost mostly, the destruction is very hilarious. People in the society dive into things whatever they want, and none care about society/people nearby. Drinks, Drugs, Whores, Unlimited Sexual intercourse before Marriage, Petrol, Diesel, Pollution, etc., are in tremendous increase because of that loss of Fear.

The only solution is Good Compassionate King.

Belindi wrote: ↑February 1st, 2023, 5:11 pm Viswa wrote:

You must be unaware that God is another name, a personalisation, of the cardinal virtues of good, beauty, and truth. To presume to know God is idolatry.

Yup. But, that God is not real God. It is Jehovah, Indra, Zeus. An Embodiment of Goodness and Beauty. The ruler of all other Gods/Deities. He is the King of the "Kingdom of Thought". The Priests and Brahmins and etc., do praise only this God in Rituals, as he is the one takes care of the world.

But, what the deep scriptures talk about is the Only God, who is beyond Good and Bad, Beauty and Beast. Kingdom of Heaven.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 1st, 2023, 5:33 pm Too much accord is given to this particular Iron Age deity, but it perhaps a helpful distraction from ideologies, which can be even more problematic due to their relatively shallow roots.

Individuals can commune with God because God is entirely subjective. That's not to say God doesn't exist, but God is clearly entirely a subjective phenomenon. That's why theists should never try to bring their deity into the greater world. IMO societies are better off when they use pragmatism, reason and commonsense rather than dogmas and ideologies. When religions are given power, we see the results.

Religions here, just not to pave way for Salvation/Enlightenment, but also for Peace in the Society. There is War between two societies, and economic factors and Fake Followers (Greed, etc.) are the main cause but not Religion.

The True King has to possess power, and should not let the power to fall in the hands of Religious Chief. That's what had to be. Even in case of Af

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 1:06 am Even in case of Af

Even in case of Afghan and India, Religious Chief should not be given the Power.

Power should must be in the hands of Non-Duality based One's, like Janaka-Rama-etc., who is like a Karma Yogi not fixed to a particular Deity/etc., also very compassionate like Jiddu Krishnamurti.

Also, the most important thing is, A Man can use his skills upon a Woman and can attract her and make her forget the Man she married or liked/loved before. This is also the case that a Woman can use her skills upon a Man and make him forget his home and responsibilities.

This is Nature. Even Jiddu Krishnamurti couldn't escape from it. And the only way to escape from this, is being Religious, to not attach to the Nature. Nature can make one forget who he/she is, what was he/she is upto/responsibilities with it's beauty. Not just Humans, Animals are also victim upon this.

Only Religious presence made a correct check upon this. Nature is so powerful, that make forget everything, and Religions are the hold upon it.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 1st, 2023, 11:52 pm

Belindi wrote: ↑February 1st, 2023, 5:11 pm Viswa wrote:

You must be unaware that God is another name, a personalisation, of the cardinal virtues of good, beauty, and truth. To presume to know God is idolatry.

Yup. But, that God is not real God. It is Jehovah, Indra, Zeus. An Embodiment of Goodness and Beauty. The ruler of all other Gods/Deities. He is the King of the "Kingdom of Thought". The Priests and Brahmins and etc., do praise only this God in Rituals, as he is the one takes care of the world.

But, what the deep scriptures talk about is the Only God, who is beyond Good and Bad, Beauty and Beast. Kingdom of Heaven.

No scripture is God, and to claim a scripture is God is idolatry.
Written texts (scriptures) are historical not eternal. There was a time when no scriptures existed. There was a time when the spoken word did not identify God in any way whatsoever.

You mistake your set of moral tenets for God's word. You don't know the Word and nobody knows the Word. No scientist or philosopher knows the Word. There may be no Word apart from man's longing and imagination.

Belindi wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 6:57 am No scripture is God, and to claim a scripture is God is idolatry.
Written texts (scriptures) are historical not eternal. There was a time when no scriptures existed. There was a time when the spoken word did not identify God in any way whatsoever.

You mistake your set of moral tenets for God's word. You don't know the Word and nobody knows the Word. No scientist or philosopher knows the Word. There may be no Word apart from man's longing and imagination.

Oh... I don't know??? Hmm.... Fine. Thanks.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 7:15 am

Belindi wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 6:57 am No scripture is God, and to claim a scripture is God is idolatry.
Written texts (scriptures) are historical not eternal. There was a time when no scriptures existed. There was a time when the spoken word did not identify God in any way whatsoever.

You mistake your set of moral tenets for God's word. You don't know the Word and nobody knows the Word. No scientist or philosopher knows the Word. There may be no Word apart from man's longing and imagination.

Oh... I don't know??? Hmm.... Fine. Thanks.

You adore Viswa's ideas, and set them up as truth.
At some point in your life you have been led astray and taught that it's possible for some mere man to know absolute truth.

Belindi wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 7:22 am You adore Viswa's ideas, and set them up as truth.
At some point in your life you have been led astray and taught that it's possible for some mere man to know absolute truth.

Oh... Okay. Superb.

But, you see, I was never interested to know Truth. Even now not to know it.
I led astray, true. I asked "Why? Why all this? Why to led astray if this World is Immensely Great?" as such. Many answers people give as "You don't ask such questions, the World is God's Gift. Just Negate being led Astray and go for your desires". I asked "Okay. Now, To run towards what? Which is the right direction and not an astray?". They said, "To run for your desires, is the right path". I asked "If I go for the desires, is there a possibility of ending up as an astray again?". They said "Yes, possibly, but never mind it and run again". Then I asked, "If there is possibility of ending up astray, then why to run for the desires? It seems not a right path as one has possibility of ending up as an astray again. Isn't it?". They said, "You are acting not based on actual course of living, and this will make up end up astray in future". I said, "Already I ended up as an Astray, and I ask which is the right path where there is no 0% possibility of ending up as an Astray again?". They said, again ignorantly, "Run for your desires, that is the course of life and one must be in line with it". I asked, "Do you see the sufferings out of it? Do you see how much selfishness and anger in pursuit of one's desires? Do you see the Employees running in a race for high positions, Businessman running for Fame and Money, King ruling for Fake Praisings and for Dominant positions, also the Activists are beaten down by Politicians and Businessman and couldn't bring a little outcome out of their hardwork? All of them are just suffering within, but faking themselves by trying to forget that sufferings with those desires. How much destruction people cause upon the world for their desires to keep away from meeting sufferings. Do you see the astray all over going through and end up by people in every part of the world? Then why should I pursue it if only Astray remain?". They say, "You are doing Blasphemy, acting against God's will. Just enjoy the life by running for your desires, and never ask questions?". I asked, "Blasphemy? Okay I want to know what is God's Will. Please show it where it is said". They show the Scriptures that it says that the God's will is to enjoy the world by running for the desires. I analyzed it but it never said so. I asked them again, "Where it says so? It only says different words against worldly desires, incling Non-God based Buddhism". They said, "Oh. It's not The Word, no one can know the Word. Scriptures are Man made longings. Don't try to know the actual truth". I said, "See. I never wanted to know the Absolute Truth. I asked you what is God's Will and you pointed out the scriptures and so I asked 'where?'. Okay. Let we keep aside the scriptures. My question is if everywhere is led to sufferings then why one should pursue desires? If there is God/Absolute Truth, why one should not pursue him and only should pursue Relative Truth/etc.?". People started to bark upon me, including underestimating the Scriptures and Sages and Buddha and Jesus and etc.

Belindi, My only question is, "If one is led astray, what is the right path then? If there is no right path as Religions say, then how did one come to a conclusion that "One is led astray"?

See, I'm not seeking Absolute Truth. But, questioning, why should seek Relative? Why should have desires?

Viswa wrote:

Belindi, My only question is, "If one is led astray, what is the right path then? If there is no right path as Religions say, then how did one come to a conclusion that "One is led astray"?

See, I'm not seeking Absolute Truth. But, questioning, why should seek Relative? Why should have desires?

There is no right path but there is the desire to seek your own personal path. This is a dangerous world, and your best desire is for uncertainty and scepticism about your own and others' beliefs. There is goodness, truth, and beauty but these can't defined by any religious creed or by anything you see or hear.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 1:06 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 1st, 2023, 5:33 pm Too much accord is given to this particular Iron Age deity, but it perhaps a helpful distraction from ideologies, which can be even more problematic due to their relatively shallow roots.

Individuals can commune with God because God is entirely subjective. That's not to say God doesn't exist, but God is clearly entirely a subjective phenomenon. That's why theists should never try to bring their deity into the greater world. IMO societies are better off when they use pragmatism, reason and commonsense rather than dogmas and ideologies. When religions are given power, we see the results.

Religions here, just not to pave way for Salvation/Enlightenment, but also for Peace in the Society. There is War between two societies, and economic factors and Fake Followers (Greed, etc.) are the main cause but not Religion.

The True King has to possess power, and should not let the power to fall in the hands of Religious Chief. That's what had to be. Even in case of Af

Religions have almost nothing whatsoever to do with peace of society today. I expect that religions were important in that regard at earlier times but not today. Now there is no reason to believe that a religious person is more moral than a non-religious one. In fact, I estimate that, on average, secular people are more moral than the religious.

I can only think of two of my old secular bosses who would not have tolerated institutional paedophiles to molest the children of the organisation's clients. I can imagine a couple of them covering up to save the organisation's reputation, but most would be appalled and immediately report such things. It seems to me that churches feel entitled, and do not hold themselves to the same standards that they apply to outsider, ie "sinners".

Belindi wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 9:35 am
There is no right path but there is the desire to seek your own personal path. This is a dangerous world, and your best desire is for uncertainty and scepticism about your own and others' beliefs. There is goodness, truth, and beauty but these can't defined by any religious creed or by anything you see or hear.

So, you are speaking bout Scepticism and Uncertainty, but on the other hand you are very much certain that "there is Goodness and Beauty"? (Let's leave Truth). Why are you very certain that "there is Goodness and Beauty"? Why you are not questioning it like you question all religious creed? Isn't "there is Goodness and Beauty" is also a Belief? Are you not ready to question and put the "senses" under scepticism/uncertainty? Why you show such Partiality by questioning "Man's longing created Religious creed" but not questioning "senses"? What makes you feel such partiality?

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 3:24 pm

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 1:06 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 1st, 2023, 5:33 pm Too much accord is given to this particular Iron Age deity, but it perhaps a helpful distraction from ideologies, which can be even more problematic due to their relatively shallow roots.

Individuals can commune with God because God is entirely subjective. That's not to say God doesn't exist, but God is clearly entirely a subjective phenomenon. That's why theists should never try to bring their deity into the greater world. IMO societies are better off when they use pragmatism, reason and commonsense rather than dogmas and ideologies. When religions are given power, we see the results.

Religions here, just not to pave way for Salvation/Enlightenment, but also for Peace in the Society. There is War between two societies, and economic factors and Fake Followers (Greed, etc.) are the main cause but not Religion.

The True King has to possess power, and should not let the power to fall in the hands of Religious Chief. That's what had to be. Even in case of Af

Religions have almost nothing whatsoever to do with peace of society today. I expect that religions were important in that regard at earlier times but not today. Now there is no reason to believe that a religious person is more moral than a non-religious one. In fact, I estimate that, on average, secular people are more moral than the religious.

I can only think of two of my old secular bosses who would not have tolerated institutional paedophiles to molest the children of the organisation's clients. I can imagine a couple of them covering up to save the organisation's reputation, but most would be appalled and immediately report such things. It seems to me that churches feel entitled, and do not hold themselves to the same standards that they apply to outsider, ie "sinners".

Why you said is True. But not with person like Ramana Maharshi, etc. Because of the Fake Priests and Fake Gurus and Fake Kings, Religions are getting damaged. It's only because of them but Religion itself preaches only Peace. Like how Moses did but the fake followers misused it, there came Jesus to set right. Like how Fake Buddhas's converted many Household person to Sanyasi and the society got into trouble, there came Shankaracharya to set right. Always some Enlightened Compassionate One will come and set right the Religion on the basis of present era. Just wait and be not attached to Life. Only to God. That's what I can say.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2023, 3:24 pm Religions have almost nothing whatsoever to do with peace of society today. I expect that religions were important in that regard at earlier times but not today. Now there is no reason to believe that a religious person is more moral than a non-religious one. In fact, I estimate that, on average, secular people are more moral than the religious.

I can only think of two of my old secular bosses who would not have tolerated institutional paedophiles to molest the children of the organisation's clients. I can imagine a couple of them covering up to save the organisation's reputation, but most would be appalled and immediately report such things. It seems to me that churches feel entitled, and do not hold themselves to the same standards that they apply to outsider, ie "sinners".

Also, here comes Karma. The specific children's of the client of that organisation should have bad Karma in their account, and cannot escape from it. The couple of them covering up that, should have good Karma on their account. As they have good Karma, Churches and Surroundings should be benefitting by the Funds they transfer as Donation for the survival and Expansion of the Church.
If those Children don't have bad karma, they wouldn't have fall into this horrible, but if some other client's children have such bad karma then they would got into this.
God is watching everything and Every Karmic deeds are happening as per it has to be.

If you have Bad Karma in account, and you are a woman, there is a possibility of getting molested too. Cannot escape from it. It's applicable to me too. And also to every beings in the whole world.
Only because of the presence of Bad Karma in this world, I see this world is not the right place to desire, though there are many beauties and Good Karmas to play with.

Beyond Karmas is God. Seek Him. That's what I can say again.

As far as I am concerned, your ideas about karma are speculative, just beliefs. That's fine, but I don't share those beliefs. I don't think individuals come back as someone else, rather personalities of a certain type, with certain dispositions appear from time to time. In a sense, the new ones carry the torch for that kind of personality.