Philosophy Discussion Forums

Wayne92587 wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 3:19 amThe God Particle is a Singular Particle, but not One-1 of many; the God existing as a Transcendental Metaphysical Fully Random Quantum State of Singularity filled with an untold number, Quantity, of Omnipresent Infinitely Finite Indivisible Singularities within the omniscience of a State of Singularity known, spoken of, as being a Transcendental, Metaphysical Quantum State of Singularity...

Transcendentally speaking a Singular Particle having no relative, numerical value, having a numerical value of Zero-0, the God Particle, was Transfigured, was metamorphically converted, Transfigured, was reborn a Singularity having a numerical value of One-1, the Reality of First Cause.

Wayne92587 wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 1:38 pm Who the hell is Deepak???

The Reality of Everything has a Cause?

The Reality of First Cause, The Transcendental Reality of 0/1 does not have a cause.

The Reality of First Cause was the born of an Event that became the series of events known as Cause and Effect.

The Event being the displacement of a Singularity of Zero-0, which being Transcendental, transcended the Darkness, without cause was metamorphic; as an Affect, was converted, was reborn, became the First Singularity to have relative a numerical value of One-1.

The Affect of the transcendence, the transfiguration, the metamorphic change in the nature of the Motion, a Singularity of Zero-0 was reborn the Reality of First Cause.

By definition, in order for a Singularity to have a numerical value of One-1, said singularity is required be the First in a Series of events, must become the beginning of a process, such as the Evolutionary Process, become the beginning of a continuum such as Space-Time.

Prior to that beginning of the Creation of the Creative Process; God, the Reality of Everything was meaningless, the possibility of existence being Uncertain, “nothing” being measurable as to location and momentum; the innate, inner motion of a Singularity, Time, Space and Motion each a Singularity being meaningless.

The Immortal Spirit of God, although Eternal, the innate inner motion of a Singularity was meaningless, exited without intent, without purpose, without meaning.

The Reality of Everything existing as an omnificent State of Singularity filled with an untold number, quantity, of minute Singularities having no relative numerical value, having a numerical of Zero-0.

Greta wrote: No, we are exploring entirely new territories to all that you refer to above.

Greta wrote: Recent technological events have not been so well anticipated, so any speculation is based on today's information. Really, a great deal of philosophy before the scientific age is effectively null and void as what were once-great mysteries become great discoveries.

Greta wrote: So when I said: "In truth, it's those who believe that the far future either contains apocalypse or roughly "more of the same" with a few tweaks are in fact the ones "on mental holidays". Such an attitude completely ignores the history of humanity, of the Earth and of the universe itself" it was neither a modal fallacy, as I explained, and hardly speculative, given that the only options are apocalypse, stagnation or advancement. Given the history, continues advancement seems by far most likely.

Greta wrote: I have wondered whether what we refer to as God simply represents an ideal that, perhaps in the far future, may approximately be realised by what life becomes after solving the problems of survival for billions of years? (trying to get back to the topic - you are right, I strayed).

Greta wrote:

Count Lucanor wrote: That's a technological utopia, we have had them before.

Not at all. It is the only logical possibility if catastrophe doesn't strike. Why are you so sure that the future will be roughly similar to today when nothing ever stays the same? This strikes me as a kind of reflexive pessimism, one that sees "The Great Filter" as a near-certainty rather than a remote possibility.

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 3:31 pm

Greta wrote:So when I said: "In truth, it's those who believe that the far future either contains apocalypse or roughly "more of the same" with a few tweaks are in fact the ones "on mental holidays". Such an attitude completely ignores the history of humanity, of the Earth and of the universe itself" it was neither a modal fallacy, as I explained, and hardly speculative, given that the only options are apocalypse, stagnation or advancement. Given the history, continues advancement seems by far most likely.

Your unrestrained optimism in the unstoppable march of humanity towards progress by the hand of technology (AI) is the retelling of centuries-old romantic views of history that started after the Renaissance. Not divine providence anymore, but a secular one, carried out by scientists. But we know how that went on with two world wars, atomic bombs and the military industrial complex. And today we can see how humanity is doing in South Sudan, to mention just one of the many places where the faith in social progress has been betrayed. And we are to expect that it is progress and sustainable ways of life that we are going to carry to the next frontier? Technical progress has not been, and cannot be by itself, the passport to a better social order. That's what history has taught us. And instead of looking for salvation in a dreamy tomorrowland, we should focus on some immediate dangers and unsolved problems we are facing today, some of them very much related to an unsustainable view of technology.

The future is open, many things can happen, including regression to states of minds and social practices that we think are left in the past. Cultural commentators have talked about our age as the New Middle Ages. Every major social system has thought of itself as the zenith of human progress, but Rome and many others fell to their own mistakes and the sword of their "barbaric" enemies.

Count Lucanor wrote:

Greta wrote:I have wondered whether what we refer to as God simply represents an ideal that, perhaps in the far future, may approximately be realised by what life becomes after solving the problems of survival for billions of years? (trying to get back to the topic - you are right, I strayed).

I think everyone speaking from a secular point of view acknowledges that religions and gods are projections of real human necessities, solved in a realm of fantasy. This is a social construction and any reference to it as an individual experience, ineffable and not subject to the broad reach of culture, politics, etc., is seeing the trees, but not the forest. We could reach a better state of affairs for humanity, without it ever resembling gods, heavens and magic. If one looks at why people get attached to things, like say video games, one might find that it reflects real human needs, which a technological platform helps to satisfy. But that's a purely contingent object of culture and there's no reason to elevate video gaming to the level of a universal human practice or an essential part of human nature that the future must be in compliance with.

Greta wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 4:57 pm Sorry, but the evidence is 100% with my view. The facts are there - 3.8b years ago the Earth consisted of rocks, chemicals the the first microbes. It never fallen back into that state and regression has always been followed up by, not just progress, but progress at an unprecedented rate. So the conservative view is to expect some continuation of civilisation's trends towards institutions and collective intelligence.

Greta wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 4:57 pm This is uncertain in the same way as a child is not guaranteed to live to an adulthood. That is, failing disaster, progress is inevitable. Any other view is basically emotion-driven woo wrapped in rationalist clothing. There is zero difference between emotion-driven pessimistic projections of the future and emotion-driven optimistic views of a loving anthropocentric God. Each time, it's emotions rather than reason that drives the opinions.

Greta wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 4:57 pm Part of this negativist faux-logical fantasy is the unfounded assumption that the fates of humans will be uniform, despite the clear evidence of history.

Greta wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 4:57 pmOnly emotions could bring a person to disregard billions of years of natural history and thousands of years of human social history to believe that the troubles of the unfortunate will cause civilisation per se to crumble, as though Buffet's and Trump's fates are tied to those in Sudan. Plenty of humanity is doing better than at any time in history. I would say the fates of Trump and the starving in Sudan are about as tethered as those between cows and connoisseurs of steak - there is a connection, but for only one party is that connection at all serious.

Greta wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 4:57 pm In other words, the nature of gods is changing. For the sake of logic and accuracy we need to parse the various gods that people believe in. Those who see God as the ground of being are closer to secularists than to their literalist fundamentalist brethren.

Greta wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 4:57 pm Whatever, humans have seen potentials, and these may be dressed in a deity's finery or seen through a scientific futurist's eye; the difference is shrinking.

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 6:21 pmSo, failing disaster, progress is inevitable? But isn't disaster in the same path of progress? And I don't buy the simplistic forced alternatives: is either an optimistic technological heaven (noticeable, not different from the heavenly worlds of godly creatures) or a pessimistic dystopia. Why? Why is the future closed to these predetermined options? Why can it be what we build from the present conditions, given the present conditions?

have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), the lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.

Greta wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 4:40 am As is usual on social occasions, I spent as much time this Christmas communing with dogs as with humans. We seem to have more in common

I agree with your post, especially the "not be a final state" observation. Catastrophe and bliss, winners and losers, have always existed concurrently in life, with the former usually benefitting from the woes of the latter.

The consumer society is a blip, mere decades. Due to chaos theory, the shorter the time frame, the more volatile and unpredictable. Still, a mind as sharp as Carl Sagan's can make a a fine fist of it:

have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), the lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.