Bohm2 wrote:
I have read the Norvig piece and a discussion of that article on the the Language Log over a year ago:
Straw men and Bee Science
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3180
You might find some of the 51 comments at the end of the piece interesting. Again I'm not a linguist. My interest in this stuff is indirectly due to my interest in other related areas, but In general I'm symathetic to Chomsky. I'll give you an analogy from physics why a statistical model alone seems "physically unsatisfying". Consider gravity...
Thanks Bohm. I can't access the Springer piece, it needs a subscription but I understand the point you're making I think. And I too feel a great sympathy for Chomsky even though I feel in this are he's up a gum tree.
In a sense this is a very old debate. I remember in reading about the history of science, something of the respective attitudes of Descartes and Boyle. While Descartes was revolutionary in his day, he preferred to argue from first principles, and saw experiment as a way of confirming what rational thought had already structured. 'Apodictic'. He thought Boyle was a bit barmy for operating his bloomin' air-pump over and over again and getting the same or similar results: why would anyone want to go on and on experimenting, especially if they still didn't understand the principles underlying the results they were getting? But then indeed Hooke and Boyle and their sceptical experimental friends were succeeded in turn by another know-it-all, some alchemist named Newton who had a theory for everything
It does feel to me that the Google-generation of corpus-analyzers (they do do analysis based on functions and parameters, pace Chomsky) might well be succeeded by a later generation of theoreticians who can make better sense of all this. Hope I live to see it!
Here's Steven Pinker on this issue, from
ejournal.narotama.ac.id/files/NATURAL%2 ... ATURAL.pdf
'Third, arguments that language is designed for communication of propositional structures are far from logical truths. It is easy to formulate, and reject, specific alternatives. For example, occasionally it is suggested that language evolved as a medium of internal knowledge representation for use in the computations underlying reasoning. But while there may be a language-like representational medium -- "the language of thought," or "mentalese" (Fodor, 1975) -- it clearly cannot be English, Japanese, and so on. Natural languages are hopeless for this function: they are needlessly serial, rife with ambiguity (usually harmless in conversational contexts, but unsuited for long term knowledge representation), complicated by alternations that are relevant only to discourse (e.g., topicalization), and cluttered with devices (such as phonology and much of morphology) that make no contribution to reasoning. Similarly, the facts of grammar make it difficult to argue that language shows design for "the expression of thought" in any sense that is substantially distinct from "communication." If "expression" refers to the mere externalization of thoughts, in some kind of monologue or soliloquy, it is an unexplained fact that language contains mechanisms that presuppose the existence of a listener, such as rules of phonology and phonetics (which map sentences onto sound patterns, enhance confusable phonetic distinctions, disambiguate phrase structure with intonation, and so on.) and pragmatic devices that encode conversational topic, illocutionary force, discourse antecedents, and so on. Furthermore people do not express their thoughts in an arbitrary private language (which would be sufficient for pure "expression"), but have complex learning mechanisms that acquire a language highly similar in almost every detail to those of other speakers in the community. '