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[amorphos_ii]

I don’t think anyone, ever, has worked this stuff out properly, only now do we have even a basic idea about the nature of the universe and time.

Lagayascienza 

I am aware such generalistic things are bunkum, It is up to the seer to make proper use of them in the particular to the individual inquirer. In ancient Celtic society the village druid would know the people well and so could use such things in addition to his/her knowledge.
Would you deny that the division on the world map of libra is appropriate to china? I mean, the yin/yang is patently a symbol of balance as is libra.

Fanman

for me faith and fate are what the Buddhists call ‘colour’, they are like an overlay – which I agree can be worked with. However fundamentally here we are talking about the ad-hock meaning of time, which is perspective based. Ergo the ‘colour’ elements come into it because that is the way the particular inquirer is taught - how they see it. Its like my astrological world map, if I just divided the world into 12 and gave the divisions numbers, what would that mean? However if I overlay western and eastern astrological concept, then that gives us something to work with.

[Fanman]

amorphos_ii ,

for me faith and fate are what the Buddhists call ‘colour’, they are like an overlay – which I agree can be worked with. However fundamentally here we are talking about the ad-hock meaning of time, which is perspective based. Ergo the ‘colour’ elements come into it because that is the way the particular inquirer is taught - how they see it. Its like my astrological world map, if I just divided the world into 12 and gave the divisions numbers, what would that mean? However if I overlay western and eastern astrological concept, then that gives us something to work with.

Okay, this is quite complex, but I see where you’re coming from. And I agree, that if you overlay western and eastern astrological concepts – that would imbue your map with meaning and each of the 12 divisions would be representative of archetypes. The (old) perceptions of faith and fate would subsist with the (new) 12 divisions, because they remain as what the inquirer is taught. Surely though, time is a huge factor. It is over time that Tarot and astrology have embedded themselves in human cultures. The archetypes are fixed as the authority to change them is long gone. So, even if through some act of genius, you manage to create something that works as well as the current system. Then does the old system become obsolete? What are your thoughts?

[Sy Borg]

The trouble with astrology is that constellations consist of stars that a dozen light years away ad stars that are hundreds of light years away. A star that is a hundred light years away is not impacting Earth.

However, the notion of archetypes is useful - the idea that people can come with sets of traits, leading to modern personality inventories, which ultimately denote archetypes. I think everyone would have noticed how many people they meet seem to be "types", but it's always hard to put your finger on those types.

[Pattern-chaser]

The trouble with astrology is that constellations consist of stars that a dozen light years away ad stars that are hundreds of light years away. A star that is a hundred light years away is not impacting Earth.

If you can see its light, it is literally "impacting Earth", isn't it? Everything is connected; start with gravity, and progress from there. Our next step might be electromagnetic radiation (aka. light)?

What that means for astrology, I have no idea...

[amorphos_ii]

@Fanman 

no absolutely not, all the persistent systems have as much validity as any of mine. Here I only hope to show that it is all those great minds and what they perceived, is what’s important. There are otherwise just a bunch of random patterns and meanings. All these archetypes are relevant to how the human mind works, and give colour to time and ‘fate’, which would otherwise just be numbers on [inaccurate] clocks.

@Sy Borg 

I am well aware of the convoluted nature of space and time. I’ve been working on universal astrology for fourty years, and the first words I spoke about it were; ‘what would happen if you were born on a spaceship half way across the solar system or indeed in another galaxy’. Any change of perspective changes the position of the planets and stars, indeed there are no stars that remain in their current position and all of them have changed location just in the time it takes for the light to reach us here. Maps are stretched – so are inaccurate, the world is tilted and has a wobble known to us as the precession of the equinoxes.

However, the notion of archetypes is useful - the idea that people can come with sets of traits, leading to modern personality inventories, which ultimately denote archetypes. I think everyone would have noticed how many people they meet seem to be "types", but it's always hard to put your finger on those types

oh that is so true! I keep thinking I understand the types somewhat because I can sometimes guess peoples star signs. However I also know it cannot be genetic, there cannot be physical looks to astrology or any of the ‘she is born in the likeness of goddess X’. though I was born with blonde curly hair, and people say that means I am mercurial/hermetic, which I am – but the physicality of that cannot be true. There will be millions of people born with blonde curly hair.

I don’t even know how people can ‘see’ something in someone, women even doctors look at our faces and think they are seeing something more than just our eyes and face, but they are not. However, I do thin that mind begins in the divine infinite, and so we can think of archetypes which somewhat match that of a given individual person, or for that matter a group of stars, or a map.
Here’s another one on the map thing; Ursa major – the bear, hangs over cancer, Leo and Virgo. The segment of the map denoted by cancer is over Greece Egypt and Israel [cancer is all about economics and family], then here more notably over western most Russia! You know, the nation we often call the bear!

BTW, maps are highly inaccurate and the earth is not straight nor properly aligned to anything, but I looked at one such map and found all that out and much much more!

If you are of a given star sign, I think it helps paint the picture if you locate that sign on the map. Countries have as much or more personality archetypes possibly than people.

If you can see its light, it is literally "impacting Earth", isn't it? Everything is connected; start with gravity, and progress from there. Our next step might be electromagnetic radiation (aka. light)?

[Fanman ] What that means for astrology, I have no idea...

Light impacting } with no mass lol? Light, an entity which when you switch a torchlight on, instantly goes the speed of light. ..but yea, perhaps connect the physics with the qualia and hence onto the mind! The qualia of both the physical and mental are their expressions, and as such surely yield archetypes, and ideas.

I could move on from that and their respective holistic archetypes, to the Gods, as the ultimate expression thereof and the ultimate abstract interface between our minds and the divine [thence to the divine infinite].

[Sy Borg]

The trouble with astrology is that constellations consist of stars that a dozen light years away ad stars that are hundreds of light years away. A star that is a hundred light years away is not impacting Earth.

If you can see its light, it is literally "impacting Earth", isn't it? Everything is connected; start with gravity, and progress from there. Our next step might be electromagnetic radiation (aka. light)? 😉

What that means for astrology, I have no idea...

Technically, yes, practically no.

If a single sulphurous molecule from one of your farts floats from GB to New Zealand, are you saying that your expulsion of intestinal gas is impacting that nation? Technically yes, practically no.

[Fanman]

amorphos_ii,

no absolutely not, all the persistent systems have as much validity as any of mine. Here I only hope to show that it is all those great minds and what they perceived, is what’s important. There are otherwise just a bunch of random patterns and meanings. All these archetypes are relevant to how the human mind works, and give colour to time and ‘fate’, which would otherwise just be numbers on [inaccurate] clocks.

I agree. The key to the validity of the archetypes is that they are relevant to how the mind works. That is how they acquire their operational value. They give contexts to our time, experiences, decisions, and if there is such a thing, fate. All of which, only contain the meaning we (and others) give to them. This leads me to see how intertwined archetypes are with humanity. It would be folly to reject or deny the impact of their influence. Thank you.