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A one-of-a-kind oasis of intelligent, in-depth, productive, civil debate.

Topics are uncensored, meaning even extremely controversial viewpoints can be presented and argued for, but our Forum Rules strictly require all posters to stay on-topic and never engage in ad hominems or personal attacks.


Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470540
SarahZ wrote: December 4th, 2024, 7:33 am Of course, in the event of unusual circumstances, whether health-related or otherwise. But having laws that organize this would be better, taking into account every circumstance and every case.
Thanks SarahZ for sharing your thoughts.

For example the aspect of gestational limits and reporting requirements in rape and incest exceptions to abortion bans in certain states.
I wonder if they considered the trauma the woman undergoes; it can take a life time to heal.
If anything, the role of the government and society is to prevent crime and to offer primary care and counseling to the woman.
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470541
Count Lucanor wrote: December 4th, 2024, 8:57 am From that moment on, I believe abortion should be prohibited and penalized in different degrees, depending on the cruelty of the abortion method used.
Thank you. I appreciate you detailing your thoughts on this subject and agree with almost all of it.
I beg to differ with regard to prohibiting and penalizing abortions after the first trimester and based on the method used - my concern lies for women in difficult situations who may be emotionally unstable during this time frame to take a clear stand.
Hence, I suggest more is done to create awareness and access to medical care is not blocked.
I hope there is more debate rather than blanket rules (Texas).
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
User avatar
By LuckyR
#470545
Kudos to the OP for bringing up what rarely is addressed in abortion debates, namely the issue of maternal autonomy. Discussion usually only focuses on fetal personhood and/or suffering.

However there is a third as yet unaddressed topic namely the success of terminations in reducing the number of unwanted children (who have a known likelihood of suffering personally and causing suffering within the community at higher levels than wanted children).
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470555
Gerry Steen wrote: December 4th, 2024, 10:51 am I wholeheartedly support a woman's freedom to choose how to manage an unwanted pregnancy and any other matters dealing with their own bodies. I, being a man, have never had to carry a baby in the womb for 40 weeks, go through labor, or suffer any complications due to a pregnancy. What right do I have to decide the fate of any woman who has this task? I felt extremely violated when my house was broken into, and I was robbed. I cannot imagine the violation a woman or girl must feel after being raped or a victim of incest. It must be the woman or girl who decides how to cope with our support.
Hello Gerry,

Exactly. I wonder whether the point you brought up was even considered by anyone at the table with the authority to enact legislation.
It comes across as highly insensitive. A society/ government that failed at protecting a woman then goes ahead and formulates laws and completely disregards her needs to feel reassured and safe before she has to decide about the pregnancy (making it illegal in some states and denying access to medical care).

I thank you for sharing your views on this sensitive matter with clarity.
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470557
Nisha DSouza wrote: December 4th, 2024, 1:22 pm I completely agree with you on this. It is indeed the woman's right to decide if she wants to continue the pregnancy. Laws that prevent this freedom of choice are unfair and can lead to a lifetime of guilt and pain for the woman in that situation.
Hello Nisha,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject.

I agree with you. Apart from the physical and emotional aspects related to pregnancy, several elements have to be regarded even in normal conditions. (namely: financial status, stage in life in terms of education and stable job, a willing partner to shoulder responsibilities of raising a child, to name a few)

"... the Hyde Amendment disproportionately affects low-income women, women of color, younger women, and immigrants, as an estimated 42% of abortion recipients live below the poverty line.[20] Since the passage of the Hyde Amendment, more than one million women were not able to afford abortions.[21] " *1

Through this post, I want readers to give this a thought: A woman who cannot afford an abortion is expected to raise a child. Is it fair to the mother/child/society?

I am curious why the supporters of such laws/government do not consider formulating laws to create more awareness of all pregnancy-related aspects, ensuring quality education, jobs, and safer neighborhoods. These aspects will help all individuals lead more informed, disciplined, and stable lives.

*1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470560
Hazel Mae Bagarinao wrote: December 4th, 2024, 10:51 pm Most of the decisions, especially difficult one that involves life have been internally and deeply thought through before it has been performed.
Hello Hazel,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I agree and hope people with the power focus on activities that create an impact from the grassroots level before declaring abortions illegal. (Counselling all age groups, information decimation that enables informed decision-making, and responsible behavior will be a few suggestions to begin with.)
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470562
byrondsouza wrote: December 4th, 2024, 8:00 am I agree! Women should have the choice and the power to make their own decisions regarding this matter. I can only imagine the challenges a woman and her child might face growing up, considering the child was a result of rape, if the mother is in a financial crisis when the child is born, or for any other reason. Ultimately, the decision must be made by the woman.
Hello Byron,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this sensitive subject.
It is time for communities to come together, create awareness, and focus on resolving the issues that give rise to such a situation.
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470563
Christal Merkey wrote: December 5th, 2024, 12:28 pm I'm against abortion, but for adoption if the mother does not want or cannot care for the baby, whatever her reasons are. I realize that not everyone sees the world the same way. I think abortion should be only used as a last resort, such as major health reasons to where it has to be done, then I could understand.
Thank you, Christal.

This is indeed a very sensitive subject. Several situations are too complex for an outsider to completely comprehend. Hence, I feel the need for a strong and close-knit community setup that is always available to offer guidance without judging. Conditional access to medical care for these women is unfair.

As much as the thought of an abortion disturbs me, I believe the woman alone should make the final decision.
As much as we both deserve and enjoy the freedom to decide, all other individuals do, too.
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470564
abuislam wrote: December 6th, 2024, 3:54 am This is a thought-provoking article, Seetha. I agree that the right to make personal decisions, especially regarding one's body, is a fundamental part of individual freedom. It's important that society and government respect this autonomy while ensuring access to education, counseling, and support. Striking a balance between freedom and responsibility can help create a society that respects all choices, without coercion or unfair restrictions. Thanks for sharing your perspective!
Hello Abuislam,

Thank you for taking the time to read the article and share your thoughts.
I agree with your thoughts about the role of the government and the society as a whole in addressing the concerns.
Feel free to share your suggestions for solutions.
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
By Melissa Jane
#470565
The issue of abortion and a woman's right to choose whether or not she keeps the pregnancy is very complex. On one hand, a woman cannot be compelled to continue carrying the pregnancy if she doesn't want to. On the other hand, their is a need to protect both the interests of the baby and the baby's other parent.

One thing I agree with is that once we allow the government to start interfering in such decisions, there's no telling what else they may interfere with. I support keeping the government away from such personal decisions.
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=352929
User avatar
By Jeff Kanda
#470570
I agree with the points that have been put across in your article as to what women require to be free, especially the right to choose for themselves. The idea of liberty is important and thus we need to ensure that women are allowed to exercise their choice without being constrained by the state or other people.

It is imperative that people understand that there are issues that surround topics like pregnancy and abortion. They need to consider such things as financial, social, and physical health and sometimes make the right decision. It is unjust to ignore all of these ideas.
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=504659
User avatar
By Pattern-chaser
#470574
LuckyR wrote: December 7th, 2024, 4:11 pm Kudos to the OP for bringing up what rarely is addressed in abortion debates, namely the issue of maternal autonomy. Discussion usually only focuses on fetal personhood and/or suffering.

However there is a third as yet unaddressed topic namely the success of terminations in reducing the number of unwanted children (who have a known likelihood of suffering personally and causing suffering within the community at higher levels than wanted children).
These are good points, points that are not all given the degree of consideration that, perhaps, they might deserve. I think the particular focus on the child is more common in America than in other nations. This, like all such issues, is important, but perhaps it receives a little *too much* of our focus?

And the role of the father should also be considered. It takes two to make a baby, so it seems reasonable to consider the situation in terms of two parents and one (or more) potential children. The involvement of anyone else seems pretty much unnecessary, doesn't it? I think so.

But the core of this discussion is surely that it is the mother who must grow and carry the baby, give birth, and (traditionally...) raise the child. This gives a priority position to the mother. But that's obvious to all, yes?

So yes, the all-encompassing view is rarer than it ought to be. And I find it surprising that I am the first to respond to your post, given the number of posts that have followed it... Is there no interest in a wider view?
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus Location: England
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470587
Good_Egg wrote: December 6th, 2024, 5:07 am Any approach to the question which doesn't involve some sort of explicit weighing-up of the rights of all the parties involved risks coming across as one-sided and shallow.

The difficulty being that the acquisition of human characteristics is gradual, but our culture favours all-or-nothing binary distinctions...
Hello and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I too strongly recommend the participation of all parties involved (the couple - both, not only the woman).
It would have not been an easy decision for a woman to make.
It seems too unfair to hold only the woman accountable. Hence, an all-or-nothing approach will most likely end up being more damaging.
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
User avatar
By Seetha E
#470588
Pattern-chaser wrote: December 6th, 2024, 9:33 am
Seetha E wrote: December 3rd, 2024, 1:51 pm Libertarianism, at its core, champions the rights and freedoms of the individual. This philosophy...
Pattern-chaser wrote: December 5th, 2024, 11:37 am In the name of clarity, nothing more, may I observe that Libertarianism is a political ideology, not a "philosophy" of itself?
Seetha E wrote: December 5th, 2024, 1:21 pm As defined, libertarianism is a political philosophy...
As you wish. I sought only to clarify. You may call your political religion anything you wish to call it.
Hello again,

As requested, I presented my understanding; no offense intended. Both of us are free to continue holding on to our understandings until convinced otherwise. I am open to sharing our thoughts/concerns.
In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=563160
User avatar
By LuckyR
#470593
Pattern-chaser wrote: December 8th, 2024, 10:13 am So yes, the all-encompassing view is rarer than it ought to be. And I find it surprising that I am the first to respond to your post, given the number of posts that have followed it... Is there no interest in a wider view?
You can't comment on what you haven't read.

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