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https://mail.onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18657
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 10:25 amTrue. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines,etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 19th, 2023, 2:39 pm What is the purpose of Religion, Theism, Myth?Doesn't religion simply offer moral guidelines, aims, and maybe even purpose, in life?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 10:25 am Doesn't religion simply offer moral guidelines, aims, and maybe even purpose, in life?Originally, religion was derived by Cicero from relegere "go through again" (in reading or in thought), from re- "again" (see re-) + legere "read" (as in lecture), and later from the Latin religionem (nominative religio) "respect for what is sacred.” It is the identification of what is sacred that gives us guidelines for protecting that, and in consequence moral teaching. Of course, people expanded on this meaning and based on OT scriptures it came to mean reverence for or fear of God, but also divine service, religious observance and in context conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation etc.
Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 19th, 2023, 2:39 pm What is the purpose of Religion, Theism, Myth?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 10:25 am Doesn't religion simply offer moral guidelines, aims, and maybe even purpose, in life?
Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 am True. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines, etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?Perhaps because it's difficult to come up with such things independently, with no external input? A starting-point, such as a religion might offer, is more than helpful, IMO.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:42 amOkay.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 19th, 2023, 2:39 pm What is the purpose of Religion, Theism, Myth?Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 10:25 am Doesn't religion simply offer moral guidelines, aims, and maybe even purpose, in life?Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 am True. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines, etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?Perhaps because it's difficult to come up with such things independently, with no external input? A starting-point, such as a religion might offer, is more than helpful, IMO.
Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 amWhy? To offer such advice in trade for power.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 10:25 amTrue. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines,etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 19th, 2023, 2:39 pm What is the purpose of Religion, Theism, Myth?Doesn't religion simply offer moral guidelines, aims, and maybe even purpose, in life?
LuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 3:27 amYes, but it's due to such kind of people, not to hate Religion itself as such, as there lived Truly Compassionate One too by following it.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 amWhy? To offer such advice in trade for power.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 10:25 amTrue. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines,etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 19th, 2023, 2:39 pm What is the purpose of Religion, Theism, Myth?Doesn't religion simply offer moral guidelines, aims, and maybe even purpose, in life?
Regardless of why the original inventor of a religion invented it, subsequent leaders within the religion used the heirarchy structure to acquire power, status and wealth.
Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 19th, 2023, 2:39 pm What is the purpose of Religion, Theism, Myth?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 10:25 am Doesn't religion simply offer moral guidelines, aims, and maybe even purpose, in life?
Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 am True. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines, etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:42 am Perhaps because it's difficult to come up with such things independently, with no external input? A starting-point, such as a religion might offer, is more than helpful, IMO.
Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 12:26 pm Okay.I'm not quite sure where you're going with this, but I would offer the well-known idea that it's the journey that matters, not the destination. In this case, an aim might be worthwhile only because it offers something to aim for/at. It might not be necessary to reach the 'goal', but only to head in its general direction? [In other cases, perhaps the aim might be meaningless unless we aim to achieve it, as you describe.]
But, I feel (and deep religious scriptures themselves speak) that they are laid down to attain a "Goal" at End. Without a purpose of attaining that Goal, these are not laid down. I feel you might have read about that "Goal". Isn't it?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 9:30 amIt offers End of sufferings, and also not bound to decaying useless body. This offering is accepted by mostly all of the religions.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 19th, 2023, 2:39 pm What is the purpose of Religion, Theism, Myth?Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 10:25 am Doesn't religion simply offer moral guidelines, aims, and maybe even purpose, in life?Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 am True. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines, etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:42 am Perhaps because it's difficult to come up with such things independently, with no external input? A starting-point, such as a religion might offer, is more than helpful, IMO.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 12:26 pm Okay.I'm not quite sure where you're going with this, but I would offer the well-known idea that it's the journey that matters, not the destination. In this case, an aim might be worthwhile only because it offers something to aim for/at. It might not be necessary to reach the 'goal', but only to head in its general direction? [In other cases, perhaps the aim might be meaningless unless we aim to achieve it, as you describe.]
But, I feel (and deep religious scriptures themselves speak) that they are laid down to attain a "Goal" at End. Without a purpose of attaining that Goal, these are not laid down. I feel you might have read about that "Goal". Isn't it?
Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:58 amSounds like we are in agreement that natural followers need a leader, whereas the self motivated don't get much out themLuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 3:27 amYes, but it's due to such kind of people, not to hate Religion itself as such, as there lived Truly Compassionate One too by following it.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 amWhy? To offer such advice in trade for power.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 10:25 amTrue. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines,etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?
Doesn't religion simply offer moral guidelines, aims, and maybe even purpose, in life?
Regardless of why the original inventor of a religion invented it, subsequent leaders within the religion used the heirarchy structure to acquire power, status and wealth.
Ideas, in itself is not a problem, but the purpose for which one gets to conditioned with it is the problem.Original Inventors and True seekers intention and purpose were different from such Egoistic ones.
Intention/Purpose of why one sticks to such (The Root) is the main thing to be understood. And so, one may hate such Egoistic Guys and Be Goodness, but never have to hate Religions/Traditions.
LuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:46 pmI feel not so. Natural Followers or Self Motivated, anyone needs a leader, as Self Motivated may fall into Egoistic Actions out of Ignorance and Misunderstandings. They too have much to get out of leaders, but as you say, they FEEL that "not get much out of them" because of Ego-Ignorance-Misunderstandings.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:58 amSounds like we are in agreement that natural followers need a leader, whereas the self motivated don't get much out themLuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 3:27 amYes, but it's due to such kind of people, not to hate Religion itself as such, as there lived Truly Compassionate One too by following it.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 amWhy? To offer such advice in trade for power.
True. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines,etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?
Regardless of why the original inventor of a religion invented it, subsequent leaders within the religion used the heirarchy structure to acquire power, status and wealth.
Ideas, in itself is not a problem, but the purpose for which one gets to conditioned with it is the problem.Original Inventors and True seekers intention and purpose were different from such Egoistic ones.
Intention/Purpose of why one sticks to such (The Root) is the main thing to be understood. And so, one may hate such Egoistic Guys and Be Goodness, but never have to hate Religions/Traditions.
LuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:46 pmIf Siddhartha (Gautama Buddha) were to seek a True Spiritual Guru like Sage Vasistha instead of Physical Renouncement, India/Asia would have been different by the words would be spoken out by Vasistha to Siddhartha and Siddhartha would have understood about the need of True-King for a nation like Rama understood. Rama was in situation same like Siddhartha was, and the slight difference of "seeking leader or not" changed the course of many Male and their Physical Renunciation and hatred upon Vedic tremendously affecting many families, etc.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:58 amSounds like we are in agreement that natural followers need a leader, whereas the self motivated don't get much out themLuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 3:27 amYes, but it's due to such kind of people, not to hate Religion itself as such, as there lived Truly Compassionate One too by following it.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 amWhy? To offer such advice in trade for power.
True. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines,etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?
Regardless of why the original inventor of a religion invented it, subsequent leaders within the religion used the heirarchy structure to acquire power, status and wealth.
Ideas, in itself is not a problem, but the purpose for which one gets to conditioned with it is the problem.Original Inventors and True seekers intention and purpose were different from such Egoistic ones.
Intention/Purpose of why one sticks to such (The Root) is the main thing to be understood. And so, one may hate such Egoistic Guys and Be Goodness, but never have to hate Religions/Traditions.
LuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:46 pmBut, all those, are just Karmic Effects. Nothing to change them, and no such families can escape such course as it's only Individual effect and no Buddha is cause for such, just a Means/agent. A big Play of Desires and Karma and Play of Differing opinions/views of same.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:58 amSounds like we are in agreement that natural followers need a leader, whereas the self motivated don't get much out themLuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 3:27 amYes, but it's due to such kind of people, not to hate Religion itself as such, as there lived Truly Compassionate One too by following it.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2023, 11:25 amWhy? To offer such advice in trade for power.
True. Exactly. But, why? For what? In what intention laid out these guidelines,etc.? That's what I meant about "purpose". Why such guidelines in life?
Regardless of why the original inventor of a religion invented it, subsequent leaders within the religion used the heirarchy structure to acquire power, status and wealth.
Ideas, in itself is not a problem, but the purpose for which one gets to conditioned with it is the problem.Original Inventors and True seekers intention and purpose were different from such Egoistic ones.
Intention/Purpose of why one sticks to such (The Root) is the main thing to be understood. And so, one may hate such Egoistic Guys and Be Goodness, but never have to hate Religions/Traditions.
Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 9:07 pmA common opinion of a natural follower. It is unreasonable to expect a follower to understand the situation of the self motivated. Or to put it another way: do leaders need leaders?LuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:46 pmI feel not so. Natural Followers or Self Motivated, anyone needs a leader, as Self Motivated may fall into Egoistic Actions out of Ignorance and Misunderstandings. They too have much to get out of leaders, but as you say, they FEEL that "not get much out of them" because of Ego-Ignorance-Misunderstandings.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:58 amSounds like we are in agreement that natural followers need a leader, whereas the self motivated don't get much out themLuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 3:27 amYes, but it's due to such kind of people, not to hate Religion itself as such, as there lived Truly Compassionate One too by following it.
Why? To offer such advice in trade for power.
Regardless of why the original inventor of a religion invented it, subsequent leaders within the religion used the heirarchy structure to acquire power, status and wealth.
Ideas, in itself is not a problem, but the purpose for which one gets to conditioned with it is the problem.Original Inventors and True seekers intention and purpose were different from such Egoistic ones.
Intention/Purpose of why one sticks to such (The Root) is the main thing to be understood. And so, one may hate such Egoistic Guys and Be Goodness, but never have to hate Religions/Traditions.
LuckyR wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:14 amNot One Single Leader is wise enough to choose right decision and action for every situation. They need support of a Group of Leaders (not Leaders but like Wise Sages and Ministers), to consider issue in every side for taking deep decisions related to threats upon Country, War, Judgements, etc.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 9:07 pmA common opinion of a natural follower. It is unreasonable to expect a follower to understand the situation of the self motivated. Or to put it another way: do leaders need leaders?LuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:46 pmI feel not so. Natural Followers or Self Motivated, anyone needs a leader, as Self Motivated may fall into Egoistic Actions out of Ignorance and Misunderstandings. They too have much to get out of leaders, but as you say, they FEEL that "not get much out of them" because of Ego-Ignorance-Misunderstandings.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:58 amSounds like we are in agreement that natural followers need a leader, whereas the self motivated don't get much out them
Yes, but it's due to such kind of people, not to hate Religion itself as such, as there lived Truly Compassionate One too by following it.
Ideas, in itself is not a problem, but the purpose for which one gets to conditioned with it is the problem.Original Inventors and True seekers intention and purpose were different from such Egoistic ones.
Intention/Purpose of why one sticks to such (The Root) is the main thing to be understood. And so, one may hate such Egoistic Guys and Be Goodness, but never have to hate Religions/Traditions.
LuckyR wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 3:14 amIt's true that a Follower cannot understand Self motivated, but a Leader can. Follower has a restricted view but not True Leader.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 9:07 pmA common opinion of a natural follower. It is unreasonable to expect a follower to understand the situation of the self motivated. Or to put it another way: do leaders need leaders?LuckyR wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:46 pmI feel not so. Natural Followers or Self Motivated, anyone needs a leader, as Self Motivated may fall into Egoistic Actions out of Ignorance and Misunderstandings. They too have much to get out of leaders, but as you say, they FEEL that "not get much out of them" because of Ego-Ignorance-Misunderstandings.Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 7:58 amSounds like we are in agreement that natural followers need a leader, whereas the self motivated don't get much out them
Yes, but it's due to such kind of people, not to hate Religion itself as such, as there lived Truly Compassionate One too by following it.
Ideas, in itself is not a problem, but the purpose for which one gets to conditioned with it is the problem.Original Inventors and True seekers intention and purpose were different from such Egoistic ones.
Intention/Purpose of why one sticks to such (The Root) is the main thing to be understood. And so, one may hate such Egoistic Guys and Be Goodness, but never have to hate Religions/Traditions.