Philosophy Discussion Forums

Bohm2 wrote:

Burke wrote:The results of double-slit experiments is extremely puzzling to me, as it is to many people. And what's going on in a Mach-Zehnder interferometer? Later maybe we can get to Bell's inequality, but these are the kinds of weirdness that I would like to explore more fully with you. (Am I in the right place?)

You might find these fairly recent macroscopic quantum-like analogues by Couder team in France interesting as it shows how you can get an interference pattern with single particles by using bouncing droplets (see near end of scond video):

A lot of thes experiments have discussed in a number of science sites:

http://math.mit.edu/~bush/?page_id=484

http://phys.org/news/2014-09-fluid-mech ... odoxy.html

http://phys.org/news78650511.html

http://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/ ... m-reality/

The floating droplet represents a nodal point extension of the wave. It is not a separate particle or independent of the wave. Thus, the wave theory persists and the particle theory fails. This confirms the existence of an aetheric medium in which light travels.

-- Updated October 12th, 2014, 11:02 am to add the following --

DarwinX wrote:

Bohm2 wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

You might find these fairly recent macroscopic quantum-like analogues by Couder team in France interesting as it shows how you can get an interference pattern with single particles by using bouncing droplets (see near end of scond video):

A lot of thes experiments have discussed in a number of science sites:

http://math.mit.edu/~bush/?page_id=484

http://phys.org/news/2014-09-fluid-mech ... odoxy.html

http://phys.org/news78650511.html

http://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/ ... m-reality/

The floating droplet represents a nodal point extension of the wave. It is not a separate particle or independent of the wave. Thus, the wave theory persists and the particle theory fails. This confirms the existence of an aetheric medium in which light travels as a wave and not as a particle

DarwinX wrote:The floating droplet represents a nodal point extension of the wave. It is not a separate particle or independent of the wave. Thus, the wave theory persists and the particle theory fails. This confirms the existence of an aetheric medium in which light travels as a wave and not as a particle

Wrong. Check the videos/links. The floating droplet is not a nodal point extension. It is separate from it:

Normally a liquid drop falling on the surface of the same liquid disappears rapidly (a few tenths of a second). In a first step [2], we have shown that this coalescence may be inhibited when the bath is made to vibrate vertically with a characteristic acceleration exceeding g, the acceleration of gravity. This causes the drop to bounce on the surface periodically. As the droplet collides with the interface, it remains separated from it by a continuous air film....Before this air film has had the time to break, the drop lifts off again. A silicone oil droplet of millimetre size can thus be maintained for an unlimited time in a kind of “oscillating levitation” on the liquid surface.

http://users.df.uba.ar/dasso/fis4_2do_c ... walker.pdf

So there's both a particle + a wave. It is analogouss to deBroglie's model. The wave goes through both slits while the particle always goes though 1 of the 2 slits. After numerous trials you get the interference pattern as the spots hit the back screen. It doesn't explain all quantum phenomena but it does offer a pretty good analogue of the quantum double-slit experiment.

Bohm2 wrote:

DarwinX wrote:The floating droplet represents a nodal point extension of the wave. It is not a separate particle or independent of the wave. Thus, the wave theory persists and the particle theory fails. This confirms the existence of an aetheric medium in which light travels as a wave and not as a particle

Wrong. Check the videos/links. The floating droplet is not a nodal point extension. It is separate from it:

Normally a liquid drop falling on the surface of the same liquid disappears rapidly (a few tenths of a second). In a first step [2], we have shown that this coalescence may be inhibited when the bath is made to vibrate vertically with a characteristic acceleration exceeding g, the acceleration of gravity. This causes the drop to bounce on the surface periodically. As the droplet collides with the interface, it remains separated from it by a continuous air film....Before this air film has had the time to break, the drop lifts off again. A silicone oil droplet of millimetre size can thus be maintained for an unlimited time in a kind of “oscillating levitation” on the liquid surface.

http://users.df.uba.ar/dasso/fis4_2do_c ... walker.pdf

So there's both a particle + a wave. It is analogouss to deBroglie's model. The wave goes through both slits while the particle always goes though 1 of the 2 slits. After numerous trials you get the interference pattern as the spots hit the back screen. It doesn't explain all quantum phenomena but it does offer a pretty good analogue of the quantum double-slit experiment.

What is keeping the droplet suspended? It must be aetheric movement from the wave. The source of the wave's energy is coming from 4 directions which forces the wave into a nodal point above the wave which is suspended above the vibrating surface. It is just a mechanical action and has nothing to do with quantum mechanics. The invisible aetheric flow keeps the droplet suspended, it has nothing to do with quantum mechanics.

-- Updated October 12th, 2014, 3:58 pm to add the following --

DarwinX wrote:

Bohm2 wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

Wrong. Check the videos/links. The floating droplet is not a nodal point extension. It is separate from it: (Nested quote removed.)

http://users.df.uba.ar/dasso/fis4_2do_c ... walker.pdf

So there's both a particle + a wave. It is analogouss to deBroglie's model. The wave goes through both slits while the particle always goes though 1 of the 2 slits. After numerous trials you get the interference pattern as the spots hit the back screen. It doesn't explain all quantum phenomena but it does offer a pretty good analogue of the quantum double-slit experiment.

What is keeping the droplet suspended? It must be aetheric movement from the wave energy. The source of the wave's energy is coming from all directions which forces the wave into a nodal point above the wave which is suspended above the vibrating surface. It is just a mechanical action and has nothing to do with quantum mechanics. The invisible aetheric flow keeps the droplet suspended, it has nothing to do with quantum mechanics.

This experiment shows the aetheric forces in action. Dayton Miller would be laughing in his grave.

DarwinX wrote:What is keeping the droplet suspended? It must be aetheric movement from the wave energy.

The air film between a floating droplet and a liquid bath is squeezed and drains out. In reaction, the air film of decreasing thickness e generates a lubrication force FL that balances the droplet weight Fg.

See Fig. 1.1 for illustration:

http://bictel.ulg.ac.be/ETD-db/collecti ... _these.pdf

It has nothing to do with an aether and yet this model can give QM phenomena like::

-single-particle diffraction

-interference

-tunneling

-quantized orbits

-Zeeman effect

-quantum corrals

-possible connections/analogues to relativistic mechanics (http://math.mit.edu/~bush/wordpress/wp- ... st-JFM.pdf)

-- Updated October 12th, 2014, 1:39 am to add the following --

Bohm2 wrote:

DarwinX wrote:What is keeping the droplet suspended? It must be aetheric movement from the wave energy.

The air film between a floating droplet and a liquid bath is squeezed and drains out. In reaction, the air film of decreasing thickness e generates a lubrication force FL that balances the droplet weight Fg.

See Fig. 1.1 for illustration:

http://bictel.ulg.ac.be/ETD-db/collecti ... _these.pdf

It has nothing to do with an aether and yet this model can imitate QM phenomena like::

-single-particle diffraction

-interference

-tunneling

-quantized orbits

-Zeeman effect

-quantum corrals

-possible connections/analogues to relativistic mechanics (http://math.mit.edu/~bush/wordpress/wp- ... st-JFM.pdf)

-- Updated October 12th, 2014, 10:36 am to add the following --

DarwinX wrote:What is keeping the droplet suspended? It must be aetheric movement from the wave. The source of the wave's energy is coming from 4 directions which forces the wave into a nodal point above the wave which is suspended above the vibrating surface. It is just a mechanical action and has nothing to do with quantum mechanics. The invisible aetheric flow keeps the droplet suspended, it has nothing to do with quantum mechanics.

So there's no misunderstanding, while in these experiments there is no ether, to fully implement it in the QM case, there has to be an analogue to the liquid bath, so there would have to be some sub-quantum ether. And the quantum analogue to the experimentally-induced vibration is internal to the particle. The particle would be more akin to a singularity in the medium with and intrinsic periodicity, that causes "ripples" in the medium and moves along the ripples. The most recent paper on the topic:

Pilot-Wave Hydrodynamics
http://math.mit.edu/~bush/wordpress/wp- ... M-2015.pdf

To be precise, there is a particle, a real wave in 3-space and ψ wave which is not a physical wave but a statistical wave.