Log In   or  Sign Up for Free

Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

Humans-Only Club for Discussion & Debate

A one-of-a-kind oasis of intelligent, in-depth, productive, civil debate.

Topics are uncensored, meaning even extremely controversial viewpoints can be presented and argued for, but our Forum Rules strictly require all posters to stay on-topic and never engage in ad hominems or personal attacks.


Use this forum to discuss the philosophy of science. Philosophy of science deals with the assumptions, foundations, and implications of science.
By DarwinX
#213246
Philosophy Explorer wrote: I'm surprised you asked this question. The link you set up leads to an article with the answer. I suggest you reread it.

I already know you won't accept any evidence contrary to what you claim. You have a closed mind so I won't bother wasting my time trying to convince you. Try to come up with real evidence, not a Pons and Fleischmann scenario. So light not needing a medium to travel still stands.

PhilX
If you have the answer, then use it. Don't just play semantics. It is you, that has a closed mind. You also don't even bother to answer my questions which shows that you hate investigation and truth. I would say that you are like most scientists that have religious objectives and prefer secrecy to revelation.
Favorite Philosopher: Stephen Hurrell Location: Australia
User avatar
By TimBandTech
#213317
Philosophy Explorer wrote:All a substance can do is slow down light - that is, hinder its movement. As an analogy, when a rocket ship takes off, the atmosphere hinders its movement which tends to slow it down through friction. The same atmosphere acts the same way on light - light can travel more easily without it which experiments have confirmed.

Any questions or comments?

PhilX
It's a good topic Phil. Still, light is regarded as obeying the principles of electromagnetism. These equations include some factors epsilon naught and mu naught which are regarded as properties of free space and so current theory does impose some qualities on the space. That wavelength and velocity of light exist are well established. Spectral analysis has led into atomic theory, and even to the electron spin. The velocity of light is regarded as constant in vacuum and is actually the ratio of epsilon naught to mu naught, which are the electric and magnetic permeabilities of free space.

Going beyond planar waves which can be treated fairly intuitively from Maxwell's equations there are polarized modes which further demonstrate how geometric light is or can be when brought into a controlled environment.

I am engaged by some mathematics which generalizes the sign of the real number (the two-signed numbers) and yields arithmetic correspondence with spacetime including unidirectional time: http://bandtech.com/PolySigned If I take this basis seriously it exposes that free space itself is structured rather than isotropic. This happens to fit with Maxwell's equations as well, but because some of the complexity has gone into space itself there is hope that the equations will be simplified. It is as if the right hand rule can be built into the basis due to the rotational qualities of the space itself.

This is heavily philosophical, for the mathematical separation of a space from the objects in the space is an old and apparently clean construction. Einstein already gave space additional qualities with the gravitational analysis, and included electromagnetic analysis. The electromagnetic tensor is a structure with redundancy. When that redudnancy is removed the structure matches the polysign progression which is supportive of spacetime P1 P2 P3 | P4 P5 ... where the '|' is a natural breakpoint of the product operator. Instantiating components into that progression leads to a structrue like
Code: Select all
   a11,    a21, a22,    a31, a32, a33,    ... 
I doubt if that text will look any good in you browser but I tried to use the code feature for it.

The modern belief is that space is isotropic, and this fits with the usage of the relative reference frame. Still, the fundamental particles within this theory are now regarded as carrying spin, which is essentially developing a reference frame per particle. This is counter to Maxwell's equations, which assume an isotropic charge devoid of magnetic qualities. While Maxwell's equations have been proven wrong physics carries on and many still treat them as pristine.

Space is clearly structured by the objects in it, and the ability to remove objects from real space is nonexistent, so here we have a disconnect from our mathematical theories and reality. Discussion of the nuances here are clouded, and the mathematical construction of a space not built form the Euclidean/Newtonian basis seems impossible, but we should attempt it none the less. According to big bang theory space is finitely sized, so in a way it is their burden to remove the real valued R^3 in use both in relativity theory and Maxwell's equations. This has not occurred. Look left then look right and tell me: is the space that you are in the same in all directions? Without those references you will have little means to operate in space as an observer or as an actor. Yet the modern physicist will carry on with the isotropic assumption. But can the philosopher? You see again a false divorce, and it goes even worse than that. Astrophysicists are humbled by their insistence of isotropic space to the point of averaging their observations to prove it true. Now there is a direct conflict which leads me to doubt the intelligence of humans.

I know that my own intelligence is greatly flawed and I am prone to errors. We must carry on trying; but don't just bow to the past works, for we are engaged in a progression. The stupidity of the human race is all about us. The scientist cannot actually write himself a free ticket out of the mimicry problem. Indeed the straight A's in power are the finest mimics, so beware. Beyond this the accumulation of information has swamped us. It cannot all be true. It is the burden of each individual to judge, for to bow to the judgement of the past greats will only lead to a religious attitude in science. There is an inescapable tension that weighs heavily, but there is also a glimmer of hope: the problems remain open to superior future solutions. The subjects we discuss are alive. They are not dead and pickled, though that is the way they are taught. The current position is not final; it is merely a stage of a progression. I believe there is adequate proof that we are stumbling in that progression at the moment. Perhaps it is a time to crawl and to dig into the ground. One false assumption in the basis could carry resounding consequences.
Favorite Philosopher: Kant Location: Meredith, NH
By DarwinX
#213333
TimBandTech wrote: Space is clearly structured by the objects in it,
It is not so clear to me. From the aether theory perspective - matter is merely a consolidated form of aether which exists in an alternate dimension. This dimensional difference is fractal and size related. Dimension is harmonically keyed as is music. Each dimension has 8 parts as does atomic structure (shells) and musical keys (notes). Space appears empty to us because we can't experience a smaller sized dimension because its parts are too minute for our instruments to detect them. Nature provides clues about the structure of invisible forces. Time frame reference also plays a part and further separates and distances us from other dimensions. Thus, the atom is a miniature galaxy which moves at incredible speed due to its fractal reference/time frame. This is why nobody will ever be able to locate any particular part of an atom at any particular time.
Favorite Philosopher: Stephen Hurrell Location: Australia
By ShrimpMaster
#213335
Reminds me of the movie John Carter where the vehicles travel on light.

I guess this would depend on what you are defining as a medium, but what about time? The light from stars can travel anywhere in the universe if nothing interferes. The only variable seems to be how long until it gets to an arbitrary point. I guess I can answer that myself because if there was no time then light would consume our universe, so it isn't necessarily a medium it travels on, but more of a restriction.
Favorite Philosopher: St. Augustine Location: Seattle, WA
By Mechsmith
#213414
It has occurred to me over the last few weeks how specific the light we see is. I am trying to figure out how to ask the question. "What would we see without eyes"? Such a stupid question :!: I will try to elaborate a bit.

The light we see is specifically perpendicular to our retina. EXactly :!: The retina is specifically designed to convert any light that can get through it to readable electrical impulses that our brain understands. For instance if you are in a well deep enough during daytime you can see stars that are normally washed out by daylight. It must be deep enough so that all light from other sources are absorbed by the walls of the well. Then you will be able to see stars that are directly overhead.

Why does this matter :?:

First, what would the astronomical radio emitters look like if we could speed up the radio frequencies to light frequencies :?: (Check out the Green Banks Radio Observatory on the web) I live near it :) .

Second, Would the Cosmic Microwave Background probes show the Olbers Paradox problem with an infinite universe resolved? Would this background be resolved into individual stars :?: Check out Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation probes on the web. Also Olbers Paradox is on wiki.

This realization of the limits of light probably would answer other questions relating to the Hubble Constant, Expansion, Dark Matter, Age of the universe etc.

We are indeed lucky that light doesn't need a medium to travel. Also lucky that it will travel through some mediums :D

Happy thoughts, M.
By DarwinX
#213460
Mechsmith wrote:
We are indeed lucky that light doesn't need a medium to travel. Also lucky that it will travel through some mediums :D

Happy thoughts, M.
You were doing so well until you got till the last paragraph. Then, you fell back into the armchair of established knowledge. The universe is structured according to the 8th harmonic of music. 1. solar system 2. galaxy local group 3. galaxy cluster . 4. galaxy super cluster 5. laniakea 6. laniakea local group 7. laniakea cluster 8. laniakea super cluster. The atom also has 8 levels which are similar to the galactic structure and are intervaled at the same relative distance. Note - The universe is unimaginably small as well as being unimaginably big. We are just small insignificant little pathetic creatures that crawl around a small planet in the middle of nowhere in an infinite universe which has no beginning and no end.


Reference - http://www.space.com/27016-galaxy-super ... -home.html
Favorite Philosopher: Stephen Hurrell Location: Australia
By Mechsmith
#213560
Darwin, Simply because light does not need a medium is not the same as saying there is no medium. My interests have been mostly concerned with the difficulties of using light as the method of conveying information about the stars to this insignificant mote of space dust that we call Earth.

Harmonics may have something to due with the distributions of energy-matter but I haven't pursued this. Probably won't.


Probably we are not lucky, merely inevitable.

Happy thoughts, M.

Current Philosophy Book of the Month

The Riddle of Alchemy

The Riddle of Alchemy
by Paul Kiritsis
January 2025

2025 Philosophy Books of the Month

On Spirits: The World Hidden Volume II

On Spirits: The World Hidden Volume II
by Dr. Joseph M. Feagan
April 2025

Escape to Paradise and Beyond (Tentative)

Escape to Paradise and Beyond (Tentative)
by Maitreya Dasa
March 2025

They Love You Until You Start Thinking for Yourself

They Love You Until You Start Thinking for Yourself
by Monica Omorodion Swaida
February 2025

The Riddle of Alchemy

The Riddle of Alchemy
by Paul Kiritsis
January 2025

2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Connecting the Dots: Ancient Wisdom, Modern Science

Connecting the Dots: Ancient Wisdom, Modern Science
by Lia Russ
December 2024

The Advent of Time: A Solution to the Problem of Evil...

The Advent of Time: A Solution to the Problem of Evil...
by Indignus Servus
November 2024

Reconceptualizing Mental Illness in the Digital Age

Reconceptualizing Mental Illness in the Digital Age
by Elliott B. Martin, Jr.
October 2024

Zen and the Art of Writing

Zen and the Art of Writing
by Ray Hodgson
September 2024

How is God Involved in Evolution?

How is God Involved in Evolution?
by Joe P. Provenzano, Ron D. Morgan, and Dan R. Provenzano
August 2024

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters
by Howard Wolk
July 2024

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side
by Thomas Richard Spradlin
June 2024

Neither Safe Nor Effective

Neither Safe Nor Effective
by Dr. Colleen Huber
May 2024

Now or Never

Now or Never
by Mary Wasche
April 2024

Meditations

Meditations
by Marcus Aurelius
March 2024

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

The In-Between: Life in the Micro

The In-Between: Life in the Micro
by Christian Espinosa
January 2024

2023 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021


My concern is simply rational. People differ fro[…]

The more I think about this though, many peopl[…]

Wow! This is a well-articulated write-up with prac[…]

@Gertie You are quite right I wont hate all […]