Re: How could there be options in a deterministic world?
Posted: March 26th, 2023, 6:50 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑March 26th, 2023, 12:08 pmThe "truth"? According to what? Don't get me wrong your theory is possible, but since it goes against all subjective and objective experience in the entirety of the existance of humans, it is the epitome of hubris to try to pass it off as the "truth".Ranvier wrote: ↑March 26th, 2023, 10:21 amNo it is not.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑March 26th, 2023, 9:41 am There is talk of meaninglessness. By those refusing to answer a simply question."How are choices made?"."How are choices made?" This is one of the most profound questions about "consciousness".
If a choice were "free" would we not be flouting the most basic fabric of the universe by being able to ignore cause and effect?
If we could reset the previous moment of time presumably the "free will" would be able to make a different choice? If this is the case then this could only render our choices meaningless, even random.
A choice can only make sense to us and the universe if it is determined by the conditions of the moment, else it would be meaningless and capricious.
Maybe I should re-phrase? How do YOU make a choice?
I mean just in the ordinary day to day sense of the word. You made a choice. What was happening?You continue to ask this question, "simply", as it's something obvious in your mind, as we all should somehow "know" what "consciousness" actually is. That would be just fine, except what your proposed: "determined choice" doesn't make sense.If you could have chosen otherwise then none of our choices are valid.
"If a choice were "free" would we not be flouting the most basic fabric of the universe by being able to ignore cause and effect?"
How so? How would "free Will" violate cause and effect, when your Will is the "cause"?
If you have the option of chocolate or strawberry ice-cream, you cannot choses vanilla.
But the truth is that before you have the option your choice is already determined with as much surety as not having vanilla.
If your choice is chocolate then it does not matter how many times you could turn the clock back 5 seconds, your choice will remain chocolate for an infinite number of times. Now tell me, if you turned back the clock what would it mean for your choice to change to strawberry as you freely think you can? Would that not potentially invalidate every single choice you ever made? Surely given the circumstances of the moment chocolate was the choice based on your needs, desire, volition, taste. None of which you have control over; none.
And when you reached adolescence did you chose your sexual orientation? Did you chose to be gay or straight or trans? Do you chose to be born? Did you chose your body, your parents your school.
And when you did start to make your "free" choices - how do you do that, what did you base your conscious choices on?