Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Dark Matter]

Yes Reflex, but will you answer the question?

Sure, but only if someone else asks. I'm tired of your cattishness.

[Sy Borg]

Your objections to agnosticism have been demolished so I understand why you'd seek a means of escape.

There may be others with the ability to sensibly question agnosticism but you don't seem to have the chops.

[Belindi]

Dark Matter wrote to Eduk:

I think a lot of the problem we see here is that attitudes and beliefs are not integrated very well. For example, "reason" goes to class, "emotion" visits a lover, "will power" studies for an exam and "religious duty" is to believe. This compartmentalization of values and goals disintegrates, rather than integrates the unity of the personality; the person is in “pieces” within as well as without and does not know which way to go.

But I did not claim that my world view is complete and unassailable. My approach to philosophy and other sources of learning is that I want to improve upon my own narrative about what is real and what unreal.As I said, my world view narrative about what is real is pro tem. My compass on this chartless sea is my own personality which happens as a result of my childhood learning from significant others such as parents, neighbours, church, and schools.

[Dark Matter]

Your objections to agnosticism have been demolished so I understand why you'd seek a means of escape.

There may be others with the ability to sensibly question agnosticism but you don't seem to have the chops.

Your bias makes your claims suspect.

[ThomasHobbes]

Your bias makes your claims suspect.

A person's bias is the basis of all their opinion. Yours included.
Without a bias you cannot have a point of view.

The value of a person's bias is in their ability to be able to deconstruct it, and understand the influences that made it. If you do not have that then you are nothing but a dupe for others' opinions.

[ThomasHobbes]

The solution is simple.

[Belindi]

Your bias makes your claims suspect.

A person's bias is the basis of all their opinion. Yours included.
Without a bias you cannot have a point of view.

The value of a person's bias is in their ability to be able to deconstruct it, and understand the influences that made it. If you do not have that then you are nothing but a dupe for others' opinions.

I agree.

[Dark Matter]

A person's bias is the basis of all their opinion. Yours included.
Without a bias you cannot have a point of view.

The value of a person's bias is in their ability to be able to deconstruct it, and understand the influences that made it. If you do not have that then you are nothing but a dupe for others' opinions.

I agree.

Me too. The question is how those biases manifest; e.g., are they internally consistent?

[ThomasHobbes]

I agree.

Me too. The question is how those biases manifest; e.g., are they internally consistent?

Consistency is easy enough. What's really needed is to dig down to the base and unpack the false assumptions upon which the consistent views are built. This is not easy. It can leave you bereft of all certainty.
The deepest misconceptions and fallacies can be internally consistent and feed each other.
On the question of agnosticism. You might want to ask yourself, why is the notion of "God" a question at all?
From childhood we have been indoctrinated to stay mute and not ask questions about this particular question, whilst in all other subjects we are asked to think about things.

In the same way the human species from the earliest moments of civilisation has been offered this "God" concept as an endemic assumption, uncritically - the only question "What is god like", not able to question the question itself.

I'm not agnostic about God at all. It is simply not a question of any value at all.

[Eduk]

TH you say you are indoctrinated to stay mute and then say there is no value anyway. Does this mean you were right to be indoctrinated? I can't quite follow your logic. Seems to me that what people believe has a great deal of value, but that value comes in many different ways.

[Felix]

ThomasHobbes: Without a bias you cannot have a point of view.

Why is it important to have a point of view?

Doesn't have a point of view
knows not where he's going to
isn't he a bit like you.... and me?

[LuckyR]

ThomasHobbes: Without a bias you cannot have a point of view.

Why is it important to have a point of view?

Doesn't have a point of view
knows not where he's going to
isn't he a bit like you.... and me?

One's POV is determined in large measure by one's accumulated life experience, besides if you don't have one, you're likely to be going nowhere, man.

[Dark Matter]

Consistency is easy enough. What's really needed is to dig down to the base and unpack the false assumptions upon which the consistent views are built. This is not easy. It can leave you bereft of all certainty.

I agree. Consistency is easy enough; it's following the logic through to the bitter end that's difficult. For example, on its surface agnosticism is logical, but the more we dig, the more problematic it becomes. How can we know ourselves of we do not know our relation with the universe? How can we formulate a universe frame in which to think if we can't decide between the bales of hay? How do we decide anything at all if we can't decide on what's most fundamental in our lives?

The deepest misconceptions and fallacies can be internally consistent and feed each other.
On the question of agnosticism. You might want to ask yourself, why is the notion of "God" a question at all?
From childhood we have been indoctrinated to stay mute and not ask questions about this particular question, whilst in all other subjects we are asked to think about things.

If you read my earlier post, you'd find that question was addressed centuries ago.

[Belindi]

Felix wrote:

Why is it important to have a point of view?

Because cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable and may be unhealthy if not downright dangerous.

[Eduk]

DM. Have you ever met an agnostic with a good quality of life, in your opinion, whom you admired?