Philosophy Discussion Forums

JackDaydream wrote: ↑January 27th, 2023, 1:11 pm
The lens are complicated, especially in relation to perspectives, ranging from the psychological to the social. Here, I am speaking of how some people have been brought up with ideas of God which can be bound up with so many values, including those about sexuality and other agendas about the social order. Some people who are deviants, such as those who are 'gay' are seen as being outside the plan of God's order. Even within esoteric systems, such as the philosophy of Ouspensky, values about sexuality were subsumed under common norms, just as the dominance of men over women was often unchallenged.

As far gurus are concerned even this is a questionable area. Traditionally spiritual understanding is often conceived in terms of going beyond the ego. But, this is a difficult area because those who have knowledge may be susceptible to the glamours of the inflated ego. This may be the danger of those who build themselves up as experts and spiritual gurus, as 'experts'. Also, what the experts seek may different from what those who are 'ordinary' seek because it may be about status primarily. The nature of status vs knowledge may be important here because 'success' and 'credibility' may be concerns of the ego beyond the principles of spiritual or philosophical knowledge.

See Jack, my only point is, if one seeks/want to know God, for the main aim of Ending Sufferings-Desires and attain Peace. Only if this aim is there, one can understand all the Philosophical/social/psych aspects religions says. Be it sexuality/Afghan Shariah practices/Buddha-Dhamma/Bible-Old Testament/Vedic-Manu Dharma. All these aspects for living can be understood, only if one wish to End sufferings and attain Peace/God and nothing else.

Without that, whatever values people may wish to know, they cannot understand. And so, they have to be kept as a 'follower'/'disciple'/'slave' until they have the urge to End sufferings and know Truth. That's why, they should not question the Testament/any Religious Scriptures, Rights are not provided to them. They can have the Right, only when they want to End Sufferings and to know Truth, because without that aim - they cannot understand and misperception happens.

JackDaydream wrote: ↑January 27th, 2023, 1:11 pm Just as the dominance of men over women was often unchallenged.

Woman's nature is made up of much desire-possessiveness upon material things, compared to Men. Woman fall to nature's beauty ignorantly (like ornaments, fragrance, cosmetics, clothes, etc.) at high level, when compared to Men. If Woman comes out of Kitchen/House, more desire grows. Also Woman have to accept whatever husband does. She can advice her husband good deeds. But should not order. If they start to order, Ego will grow, then they cannot step out of it like Men's nature. It's like Preventive and Curative. Man can be cured even if they fall to many things. But, for woman, it's very very tough, and so Preventive Measures. Nowadays, Woman don't advice her husband and places order, also easily divorces Husband and seeks another guy. Woman don't adjust with Husband, whomever Husband shall be. Even a Wife of Ravana, can attain Peace/Enlightenment, by advicing Ravana and also remain as his wife and acts according to her husband desires.

The only aim of Religion is to curb the material desires and never suffer and put an end to rebirth. Let Woman be a wife of Good Rama or Evil Ravana. Their desire should not be upon world, but only upon God. In India, many Brahmanic Wife lived that way. Man can easily cut off the material desires, but for Woman it's really tough. And so, Shariah framed to make woman study only Quran and nothing else, so desire don't grow on mind and only seek God.

But, the good thing about Women is, they have insightful concentrated Mind, and if they seek God, they are the one easily attains and understand subtle things than Men. And so, using their insightful concentrating Mind, if used upon worldly things, they cannot get to God, but if seeked God they can attain Peace very easily compared to Men.

That's why I again and again stress that, to understand any aspect of Religious practices, one must have the aim to End Sufferings and attain Peace. Or else, they should not be allowed to question ny religious aspects, and either follow it, or resign from it and go with whatever way they want to live nd create a own law of living for themselves/their group like SATAN.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑January 27th, 2023, 11:01 pm

JackDaydream wrote: ↑January 27th, 2023, 1:11 pm Just as the dominance of men over women was often unchallenged.

Woman's nature is made up of much desire-possessiveness upon material things, compared to Men. Woman fall to nature's beauty ignorantly (like ornaments, fragrance, cosmetics, clothes, etc.) at high level, when compared to Men. If Woman comes out of Kitchen/House, more desire grows. Also Woman have to accept whatever husband does. She can advice her husband good deeds. But should not order. If they start to order, Ego will grow, then they cannot step out of it like Men's nature. It's like Preventive and Curative. Man can be cured even if they fall to many things. But, for woman, it's very very tough, and so Preventive Measures. Nowadays, Woman don't advice her husband and places order, also easily divorces Husband and seeks another guy. Woman don't adjust with Husband, whomever Husband shall be. Even a Wife of Ravana, can attain Peace/Enlightenment, by advicing Ravana and also remain as his wife and acts according to her husband desires.

The only aim of Religion is to curb the material desires and never suffer and put an end to rebirth. Let Woman be a wife of Good Rama or Evil Ravana. Their desire should not be upon world, but only upon God. In India, many Brahmanic Wife lived that way. Man can easily cut off the material desires, but for Woman it's really tough. And so, Shariah framed to make woman study only Quran and nothing else, so desire don't grow on mind and only seek God.

But, the good thing about Women is, they have insightful concentrated Mind, and if they seek God, they are the one easily attains and understand subtle things than Men. And so, using their insightful concentrating Mind, if used upon worldly things, they cannot get to God, but if seeked God they can attain Peace very easily compared to Men.

That's why I again and again stress that, to understand any aspect of Religious practices, one must have the aim to End Sufferings and attain Peace. Or else, they should not be allowed to question ny religious aspects, and either follow it, or resign from it and go with whatever way they want to live nd create a own law of living for themselves/their group like SATAN.

Do you imply the nature of woman is caused by woman's inherited biology, or is she taught to be as you describe her by the family and society that reared her?

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑January 27th, 2023, 11:01 pm

JackDaydream wrote: ↑January 27th, 2023, 1:11 pm Just as the dominance of men over women was often unchallenged.

Woman's nature is made up of much desire-possessiveness upon material things, compared to Men. Woman fall to nature's beauty ignorantly (like ornaments, fragrance, cosmetics, clothes, etc.) at high level, when compared to Men. If Woman comes out of Kitchen/House, more desire grows. Also Woman have to accept whatever husband does. She can advice her husband good deeds. But should not order. If they start to order, Ego will grow, then they cannot step out of it like Men's nature. It's like Preventive and Curative. Man can be cured even if they fall to many things. But, for woman, it's very very tough, and so Preventive Measures. Nowadays, Woman don't advice her husband and places order, also easily divorces Husband and seeks another guy. Woman don't adjust with Husband, whomever Husband shall be. Even a Wife of Ravana, can attain Peace/Enlightenment, by advicing Ravana and also remain as his wife and acts according to her husband desires.

The only aim of Religion is to curb the material desires and never suffer and put an end to rebirth. Let Woman be a wife of Good Rama or Evil Ravana. Their desire should not be upon world, but only upon God. In India, many Brahmanic Wife lived that way. Man can easily cut off the material desires, but for Woman it's really tough. And so, Shariah framed to make woman study only Quran and nothing else, so desire don't grow on mind and only seek God.

But, the good thing about Women is, they have insightful concentrated Mind, and if they seek God, they are the one easily attains and understand subtle things than Men. And so, using their insightful concentrating Mind, if used upon worldly things, they cannot get to God, but if seeked God they can attain Peace very easily compared to Men.

That's why I again and again stress that, to understand any aspect of Religious practices, one must have the aim to End Sufferings and attain Peace. Or else, they should not be allowed to question ny religious aspects, and either follow it, or resign from it and go with whatever way they want to live nd create a own law of living for themselves/their group like SATAN.

I am not sure what part of the world you are living in because your ideas of the differences between men and women seems at odds with the thinking of the twentieth first century. Your description includes gross overgeneralisations, like 'Women fall to nature's beauty ignorantly'. It is indeed questionable to suggest that women are more materialistic. What about men and cars and 'boy's toys'. What about the cultural aspects of gender and the way people are influenced by stereotypes?

I also notice that in your final paragraph you mention Satan. It is probably important that the problem of evil is not overlooked. The idea of Satan may represent evil symbolically but the literal existence of a being called Satan is another matter. Of course, in traditional religious views the idea of the fall of Lucifer and the angels as described in the Biblical account of Genesis is taken concretely. Certainly my own understanding of the Biblical account is that it is mythical rather than literal.

When I went to some evangelical churches in my student days there was so much talk of Satan. I was told by someone that I should stop reading Carl Jung's writings as it was the work of Satan. Also, I remember some people who were convinced that a lot of rock music was Satanic and if listened to backwards contained specific Satanic messages. One often mentioned was that the Led Zeppelin song, 'Stairway to Heaven' played backwards contained the words, 'Satan is God'. I found all this fear provoking and such extreme ideas were the reason why I chose to question religious thinking so much.

Belindi wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 6:14 am Do you imply the nature of woman is caused by woman's inherited biology, or is she taught to be as you describe her by the family and society that reared her?

If one is a follower of Christianity, they shall just leave it to Jesus/Father and never have to find the reason behind it.

But, if one is a deep inquirer, and willing to take up many Eastern Religious for finding out the answer, then Previous Life Karma is the only conclusion and nothing else.

Belindi wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 6:14 am Do you imply the nature of woman is caused by woman's inherited biology, or is she taught to be as you describe her by the family and society that reared her?

Also, one is responsible for one's own as Bible says "Reap what you sow". Many opportunities are put before woman to remind about God, but they voluntarily negate those and dwell into such desires.
As Karma, Material Desire itself a strong force overthrowing Religious Practices.

Desires and Karma is the answer, and I'm sure about it.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 7:22 am

Belindi wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 6:14 am Do you imply the nature of woman is caused by woman's inherited biology, or is she taught to be as you describe her by the family and society that reared her?

If one is a follower of Christianity, they shall just leave it to Jesus/Father and never have to find the reason behind it.

But, if one is a deep inquirer, and willing to take up many Eastern Religious for finding out the answer, then Previous Life Karma is the only conclusion and nothing else.

Have you been educated according to European Enlightenment ideas such as scepticism?

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 7:28 am

Belindi wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 6:14 am Do you imply the nature of woman is caused by woman's inherited biology, or is she taught to be as you describe her by the family and society that reared her?

Also, one is responsible for one's own as Bible says "Reap what you sow". Many opportunities are put before woman to remind about God, but they voluntarily negate those and dwell into such desires.
As Karma, Material Desire itself a strong force overthrowing Religious Practices.

Desires and Karma is the answer, and I'm sure about it.

It's sign of conceitedness and vanity to be "sure about it". Which political allegiance do you own?

JackDaydream wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 7:01 am
I am not sure what part of the world you are living in because your ideas of the differences between men and women seems at odds with the thinking of the twentieth first century. Your description includes gross overgeneralisations, like 'Women fall to nature's beauty ignorantly'. It is indeed questionable to suggest that women are more materialistic. What about men and cars and 'boy's toys'. What about the cultural aspects of gender and the way people are influenced by stereotypes?

I also notice that in your final paragraph you mention Satan. It is probably important that the problem of evil is not overlooked. The idea of Satan may represent evil symbolically but the literal existence of a being called Satan is another matter. Of course, in traditional religious views the idea of the fall of Lucifer and the angels as described in the Biblical account of Genesis is taken concretely. Certainly my own understanding of the Biblical account is that it is mythical rather than literal.

When I went to some evangelical churches in my student days there was so much talk of Satan. I was told by someone that I should stop reading Carl Jung's writings as it was the work of Satan. Also, I remember some people who were convinced that a lot of rock music was Satanic and if listened to backwards contained specific Satanic messages. One often mentioned was that the Led Zeppelin song, 'Stairway to Heaven' played backwards contained the words, 'Satan is God'. I found all this fear provoking and such extreme ideas were the reason why I chose to question religious thinking so much.

Shall I ask a question here?
What makes you feel that "Don't have to offend Rock Music in case of religious practices? Don't you feel it is not peaceful?
You may ask "War is not peaceful too", but for economical level to live - war is necessary to stand against greedy one.
But, in case of Rick Music/related, there is no reason for one have to lose peace. If one couldn't leave sensual inclination to music for God, but also in other hand wants to hold on to God, then Devotional/Soft-hearted Music aids it. But not Hard-natured songs. Deriving Pleasure from Hard-Natured songs, only makes one to be not Peaceful and takes one away from God.

Belindi wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 7:31 am
Have you been educated according to European Enlightenment ideas such as scepticism?

Nah...Educated to question everything, not "For Ego's' sake", but "For God's sake".

Belindi wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 7:34 am It's sign of conceitedness and vanity to be "sure about it". Which political allegiance do you own?

God's Politics. It's about the play organized to return back to God.

JackDaydream wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 7:01 am
I am not sure what part of the world you are living in because your ideas of the differences between men and women seems at odds with the thinking of the twentieth first century. Your description includes gross overgeneralisations, like 'Women fall to nature's beauty ignorantly'. It is indeed questionable to suggest that women are more materialistic. What about men and cars and 'boy's toys'. What about the cultural aspects of gender and the way people are influenced by stereotypes?

I think, I had used the word "the highest level" "more compared to Men". I don't deny Man's desires, but Woman's are far more stronger and higher compared to Men. If a Fear arises of losing things, you can see that Women have more attachments compared to Men, crying and etc..
Also, the Ego and Greed. Even if she feels her friend is more beautiful, the greed and Ego and Anger you can see. Men don't have that much level.
As you say, men have attachments too. What I say is, Woman's Insight (though very high) easily gets covered by Sensitive things, compared to Men. They have at very high level.

But, if they turn that Sensitivity/Beauty seeking towards God, no men can touch/come near to their level of devotion.
What Religion says to Woman, is they have high devotion/concentration, and for the better of Nation to do Duty as a Service to God, then Woman have to be made Devoted to God and not upon Sensitive Pleasures. They may attend to the needs of Men (like Sexual needs of Husband/etc.), but not on their own seek such pleasures, but only upon God. Because, Men's desire are like 25% level and can be converted to God even if fall to senses, but Woman are like 99% level and if they fall to seeking Material pleasures, then even if Jesus comes again and remind them about God as a King, it will be very tough and they will only fall upon Jesus's body like "In How Good Structure Jesus is" and "what if I am his Wife?, I can buy this-that-etc. as a Queen, what not?" rather than the things he says/preaches. For Men, if Jesus preaches, there is an Ego-greed that "what if he take my position away and I might lose etc.", out of Material desires, but by Battling against them, it has the possibility to wash it out, but Woman's nature is not that way. They want whatever they desire. They cannot be Battled against, then it will become like Sexual Harassment/etc. They will start to cry and many Men will be there to give her false hope for her body and turn her against her husband/Religion. Many Complex issue there, if Woman gets into Devotion to Material Pleasures rather than Devotion to God. And also, the impact of Woman being Devoted to Senses has larger value upon Society rather than Man's seeking. And now, the society in that position of that impact.

They have to be the Role Model for Men to seek God. It's like, If a Woman goes to a Rock Song Concert, then Man will go to that atleast for her. If many woman go for Temple/Church/Mosque and dwell in Religious Songs (not Romantic-soft natured but soft-natured songs describing God/stories about God related), then Men also go for that atleast for woman and it shall have a Good impact on Men and possibilities for changing them are more.

JackDaydream wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 7:01 am

I also notice that in your final paragraph you mention Satan. It is probably important that the problem of evil is not overlooked. The idea of Satan may represent evil symbolically but the literal existence of a being called Satan is another matter. Of course, in traditional religious views the idea of the fall of Lucifer and the angels as described in the Biblical account of Genesis is taken concretely. Certainly my own understanding of the Biblical account is that it is mythical rather than literal.

"The Fallen One" keeps things in Balance. That's why God spared him inspite of locking him up or killing him and gave opportunity to tamper upon non-believer souls, so can cause destruction and keep things in balance. At the time of death, if one is true believer of God, then "you-know-who" cannot touch that soul and one returns to God. He can touch only the non-believers but not others.

In Vedic, he is called as 'Kala' with 'Asura Disciples'. Here, it is said as a Karmic Balancing work done by Destroyers. Or else, One will always indulge to think about Material things and never care to think about God.

You know what, if you have the desire to End Sufferings totally nd attain God/Peace, you don't worry about Mystical/Literal nd can understand the meaning of words clearly as it is ment to be said. The Mystical vs Literal, is a way people use to defend one's Egoistic Needs, but for one who upon Truth, no need of such differentiation.

JackDaydream wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 7:01 am

I also notice that in your final paragraph you mention Satan. It is probably important that the problem of evil is not overlooked. The idea of Satan may represent evil symbolically but the literal existence of a being called Satan is another matter. Of course, in traditional religious views the idea of the fall of Lucifer and the angels as described in the Biblical account of Genesis is taken concretely. Certainly my own understanding of the Biblical account is that it is mythical rather than literal.

"The Fallen One" keeps things in Balance. That's why God spared him inspite of locking him up or killing him and gave opportunity to tamper upon non-believer souls, so can cause destruction and keep things in balance. At the time of death, if one is true believer of God, then "you-know-who" cannot touch that soul and one returns to God. He can touch only the non-believers but not others.

In Vedic, he is called as 'Kala' with 'Asura Disciples'. Here, it is said as a Karmic Balancing work done by Destroyers. Or else, One will always indulge to think about Material things and never care to think about God.

You know what, if you have the desire to End Sufferings totally nd attain God/Peace, you don't worry about Mystical/Literal and can understand the meaning of words clearly as it is ment to be said. The Mystical vs Literal, is a way people use to defend one's Egoistic Needs, but for one who upon Truth, no need of such differentiation between Mystical vs Literal.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 10:08 am

JackDaydream wrote: ↑January 28th, 2023, 7:01 am

I also notice that in your final paragraph you mention Satan. It is probably important that the problem of evil is not overlooked. The idea of Satan may represent evil symbolically but the literal existence of a being called Satan is another matter. Of course, in traditional religious views the idea of the fall of Lucifer and the angels as described in the Biblical account of Genesis is taken concretely. Certainly my own understanding of the Biblical account is that it is mythical rather than literal.

"The Fallen One" keeps things in Balance. That's why God spared him inspite of locking him up or killing him and gave opportunity to tamper upon non-believer souls, so can cause destruction and keep things in balance. At the time of death, if one is true believer of God, then "you-know-who" cannot touch that soul and one returns to God. He can touch only the non-believers but not others.

In Vedic, he is called as 'Kala' with 'Asura Disciples'. Here, it is said as a Karmic Balancing work done by Destroyers. Or else, One will always indulge to think about Material things and never care to think about God.

You know what, if you have the desire to End Sufferings totally nd attain God/Peace, you don't worry about Mystical/Literal and can understand the meaning of words clearly as it is ment to be said. The Mystical vs Literal, is a way people use to defend one's Egoistic Needs, but for one who upon Truth, no need of such differentiation between Mystical vs Literal.

In this reply, please read it as Mythical instead of Literal.