Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[OnlybutteredPopcorn]

You say elsewhere that because you think that god is the basis of every religion they must be right. Well since you think that every religion is the same, then why are you looking for viruses outside the earth when you believe that "god" created the earth?

-- Updated Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:44 pm to add the following --



You say elsewhere that because you think that god is the basis of every religion they must be right. Well since you think that every religion is the same, then why are you looking for viruses outside the earth when you believe that "god" created the earth?

And so because I believe that God created the Earth, I can't believe other planets exist containing life? Putting god into this isn't going to prove any point, its unnecessary. And I never said every religion was the same, look back in the thread. Also what do religion and viruses have to do with each other?

-- Updated July 17th, 2012, 10:12 pm to add the following --

What kind of proof do you think there should be, if viruses or life in general, started on earth?

Whatever evidence scientists use to prove other life started on Earth. Why would I know what that process is?

[Maldon007]

Because you are saying scientists have proof that life started on earth, and didnt find it's way here on a rock or from god's pointing finger... And I say, they do not. As far as I know, they have competing theories, no proofs at all, that I know of. Absolutely no fossil record, that is for sure... evidence sure, proof no.

You are saying the proof for one and the lack of proof for the other, are evidence for external input. I say there is proof of neither, so the evidence is not evidence. One can be traced back farther than the other, yes. But neither back to a starting point... And both are built from similar stuff, nothing unusual really... You have to want to believe this to keep believing it, imo.

[chazwyman]

And so because I believe that God created the Earth, I can't believe other planets exist containing life? Putting god into this isn't going to prove any point, its unnecessary. And I never said every religion was the same, look back in the thread. Also what do religion and viruses have to do with each other?

WHooaahh. You did not say anything about viruses on other planets until now. This just makes your hypothesis even more unbelievable. So tell me, how do you think viruses launch themselves from other planets, travel across the vastness of space and land on earth? And as you believe in god too, how does this all fit into his creation plan?

[OnlybutteredPopcorn]

I think viruses traveled to Earth by extraterrestrials visiting here. Sometimes I think they created the viruses and brought them to us on purpose. Other times I think they just happened to bring it with them on accident, like how Europeans settlers brought diseases to Native Americans. As for Gods creation plan, based on the bible it says he's made the Earth. Based on the Greek creation story he created the universe, including stars and planets. What does that have to do with viruses?

[Maldon007]

How would an ET know we were here, to plague us with viruses?

[chazwyman]

Yes? What is so funny?

So let's get this straight. First you want us to believe, for some reason, that viruses are not from earth. You argument seems to be that they look like 'robots'. They are from outer space. Then you insist that they come from some other planet, as yet unspecified. When I ask how did the viruses manage to launch themselves from another planet, cross space, and land on earth, you tell the Forum that they have been brought here by "aliens". Is this right so far? So the trillions of kinds of viruses that exist on earth were all brought here from an unspecified (unknown planet), by alien life forms, for reasons unspecified (unknown?) So - tell me. What planet? And why did they do this?

[Maldon007]

It would have to be a planet inside a hundred light year circle, no? Given the speed of radio signals from us, going out... But then they would have needed time to get pissed at us & create viruses, lots of them, and ones that actually interact with our DNA... Did they come first to get sample DNA? So they recieved a signal, decided to hate us, came here (faster than light? would be a tough timeline otherwise)... Got DNA, went back home real quick... Wait, I guess they could make it on the ship then release.........

But wait! Viruses have been here since before we said hi to everyone out there... I know, they saw out campfires from... some distance I assume, and hated us even though we had no tech and were basically hairless apes... Decided we must have viruses, everyone knows the rest of the story, AIDS!

Or.... time machine!!!

I'm really not trying to be a dick, it just doesn't make sense... If you hear hoof beats, assume horses not zebras... unless you're on the African grasslands I guess. Sure it could be as you say, but why assume the least likely?

[OnlybutteredPopcorn]

So let's get this straight. First you want us to believe, for some reason, that viruses are not from earth. You argument seems to be that they look like 'robots'. They are from outer space. Then you insist that they come from some other planet, as yet unspecified. When I ask how did the viruses manage to launch themselves from another planet, cross space, and land on earth, you tell the Forum that they have been brought here by "aliens". Is this right so far? So the trillions of kinds of viruses that exist on earth were all brought here from an unspecified (unknown planet), by alien life forms, for reasons unspecified (unknown?) So - tell me. What planet? And why did they do this?

So because I believe viruses come from another planet means I have to know what planet and why they came here? No, I don't and there's no way I WOULD know. Because I don't know the answers to those impossible questions means that what I think is wrong?

I don't think you understand that what I'm saying is a SUGGESTION and not a fact. I'm not saying its true, but I believe it MOST LIKELY is. If you're making a suggestion or "theory" you don't know everything or else it would be a fact and NOT a THEORY.

-- Updated July 18th, 2012, 7:05 pm to add the following --

It would have to be a planet inside a hundred light year circle, no? Given the speed of radio signals from us, going out... But then they would have needed time to get pissed at us & create viruses, lots of them, and ones that actually interact with our DNA... Did they come first to get sample DNA? So they recieved a signal, decided to hate us, came here (faster than light? would be a tough timeline otherwise)... Got DNA, went back home real quick... Wait, I guess they could make it on the ship then release.........

But wait! Viruses have been here since before we said hi to everyone out there... I know, they saw out campfires from... some distance I assume, and hated us even though we had no tech and were basically hairless apes... Decided we must have viruses, everyone knows the rest of the story, AIDS!

Or.... time machine!!!

I'm really not trying to be a dick, it just doesn't make sense... If you hear hoof beats, assume horses not zebras... unless you're on the African grasslands I guess. Sure it could be as you say, but why assume the least likely?

Ok everything you just said was a load of crap and I didn't say anything that at all. Yes what you just said DOES NOT make sense.

And um, how can we determine where a planet has to be in order for other lifeforms to visit us? We can't even make it to another planet. Don't assume ET technology is on our level.

[Maldon007]

So they can detect out existence before our first radio waves hit their planet?

How could that happen?

[BaruchSpinoza]

The exact origin of viruses is unclear. What is crystal clear is that the material from which they are built is common to all terrestrial life, namely nucleic acids.

nature com/scitable/topicpage/the-origins-of-viruses-14398218

From the scientific analysis in this journal, it is clear enough that viruses are elegantly evolved to develop in parallel with their host and is highly likely that their origin in not only terrestrial but is very close to the hosts which provide them there existence and future.

The suggestion that such things could have an origin which does not include the host organism is not possible for the simply reason that viruses cannot survive and reproduce with their hosts.

Viruses typically reproduce by commandeering the body of the host cell. This means that their RNA has to match certain sequences of the host DNA exactly. Once the host cell has been taken over, it is only then that a virus can multiply. The idea that they could have evolved in another planet is therefore risible, as their existence depends wholly on their parasitic nature.

[Maldon007]

Yeah, we tried to tell him that.

[BaruchSpinoza]

Yeah, we tried to tell him that.

Indeed. But I don't think there was any need for him to be rude (above), as he must realise that his idea is not mainstream.