Jjpregler wrote:Belinda wrote:I take your point Bermudj. However schools are subject to legislation regarding methods and curriculums. The American Constitution moreover, doesn't it legislate for separation of church and state and that this be carried into schools?
Yes, but indoctrination occurs in the US schools for a number of other topics. Especially on topics such as capitalism and democracy as just a few. A plain and simple definition of indoctrination is the teaching of a doctrine as better than other choices. So for a history teacher to teach 6th graders the benefits of democracy is indoctrination. So one cannot make a blanket statement that indoctrination is wrong. In some cases a very strong argument can be made for indoctrination actually being necessary.
So one cannot call indoctrination child abuse. Which therefore, makes calling indoctrination of religious ideas child abuse harder, as the only difference then is being indoctrination of an idea that is wrong or that a certain goup of people do not believe the idea. This then would entail that one can argue that indoctrination of democratic society as wrong and therefore child abuse.
Well said Jjpregler, I needed to know this.
Then is the fact that young children perhaps cannot understand how the big moral principles permeate democracy, say, and seldom permeate or even infiltrate capitalism, a reason to indoctrinate and not to educate the child to be autonomous in areas where he is unable to go ? Teaching, indoctrinating, about Gentle Jesus instead of attempting to indoctrinate the ontological proof of the existence of God is an instance of content that is suited to a young child and arguably does no harm. In the case that this is done there are other moral sages similar to Gentle Jesus who should also be indoctrinated to be politically correct. E.g. Good King Wenceslaus, Robin Hood, Santa Claus in his nonjudgemental mood, Dances With Wolves, Gautama Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, Prime Minister Clement Attlee. All of those sages may be taught, as is Gentle Jesus, as exemplars of Do As You Would Be Done By which is a simplified form of The Golden Rule.
Religion is a many headed creature , and there is good reason not to teach morality attached to bad science. In this case, Genesis may be too difficult for young children not to mention too difficult for many adults.But the synoptic Gospels perhaps bowdlerised a little can be suited to the indoctrination of young children.I am of course presuming that The Golden Rule is the moral mainstay and top ethic of our free civilisation.
I am still accepting Jjpregler's advice regarding the benefit of indoctrination.
I submit then that what is sometimes wrong about indoctrination is that it can persuade the child always to respect authority in whatever form the authority presents. Religious and moral fables are okay then as fables, but not to be taught as history which should always have a eye to scientific rectitude however historical evidence is interpreted.
So for a history teacher to teach 6th graders the benefits of democracy is indoctrination.
Indeed. However are sixth graders (I am unfamiliar with American grades as I am unfamiliar with modern UK 'levels') of an age to balance the respective merits of right and left wing, optimistic and pessimistic, interpretations of political stances? This is a difficult enough exercise for many undergraduates.
**************************** To Bermudj: My former opinion about the amount of control that the state has over school curriculums and methods was inaccurate and misinformed. I think that French state schools are state controlled as to methods and curriculums but to what extent I do not know.
- By Sy Borg
- By Sushan