Log In   or  Sign Up for Free

Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

Humans-Only Club for Discussion & Debate

A one-of-a-kind oasis of intelligent, in-depth, productive, civil debate.

Topics are uncensored, meaning even extremely controversial viewpoints can be presented and argued for, but our Forum Rules strictly require all posters to stay on-topic and never engage in ad hominems or personal attacks.


Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
#439425
Here is a story about a town who used its police to legally steal money from peaceful people in an amount equal to $483 per capita.
John Archibald wrote:
By 2020 Brookside made more misdemeanor arrests than it has residents. It went from towing 50 vehicles in 2018 to 789 in 2020 – each carrying fines.

[...]

Defendants must pay thousands in fines and fees – or pay for costly appeals to state court – and poorer residents or passersby fall into patterns of debt they cannot easily escape.

“Brookside is a poster child for policing for profit,” said Carla Crowder, the director of Alabama Appleseed Center for Law & Justice, a nonprofit devoted to justice and equity. “We are not safer because of it.”

[...]

By 2020 officers in the sleepy town were undergoing SWAT training and dressing in riot gear, even as the city continued with only a volunteer fire department. It parked a riot control vehicle — townspeople call it a tank — outside the municipal complex and community center. Traffic tickets, and criminalizing those who passed through, became the city’s leading industry.

[...]

“It’s not about making a dollar,” Jones said.

Yet the town with no traffic lights collected $487 in fines and forfeitures in 2020 for every man, woman and child, though many of those fined were merely passing by on I-22.

[...]

Lawyer Martin Weinberg had a client in Brookside, a young man named Thomas Hall, who was stopped for speeding and found with a small amount of marijuana.

He was charged with misdemeanor possession, but also five counts of possession of drug paraphernalia, for:

Rolling papers
The baggie that held the marijuana
Cigar wrappers
A small jar “that once may have held marijuana”
And a small tray that “might have” been used to roll a joint

The names of the officers were not listed on the tickets in secretive Brookside. Instead, the arresting officer was listed as “Agent JS,” while the assisting officer was “Agent AR.”

A judge set Hall’s fines at $6,000, and he had to post $12,000 bond while he appealed the case.


Read Full Article
Favorite Philosopher: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes Signature Addition: View official OnlineBookClub.org review of In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

View Bookshelves page for In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
#439484
According to this source, over 75,000 people are in solitary confinement in the USA alone.

Of course, that's just at any one time. So the number of human beings permanently damaged or driven insane by the procedure over the course of a year or decade is much, much higher, immeasurably so.

John Oliver just did a very informative episode about it in which he reported the following:
John Oliver wrote: In general, researchers have found violence is typically NOT the most common reason people are sent to solitary.

In Oregon, researchers once found that disobedience was the infraction resulting in the most solitary confinement sanctions. And nationwide, people have been sent to solitary for reasons including– and these are real – not making their bed, using Facebook, and having too many envelopes.

...a 2016 report found that “there is little evidence that administrative segregation has had any effects on overall levels of violence” in correctional facilities. In fact some research has found subjecting people to solitary can lead them to become more, not less, violent.

..by the mid-1800s, the psychological harms of isolation were becoming clear. And by 1890, the supreme court declared that solitary confinement made prisoners, quote, “violently insane.” After that, the practice was largely abandoned until the 1980s, when mass incarceration led to prison overcrowding.

Keep in mind, the vast most of inmates in the USA are only charged with non-violent crimes, such as marijuana possession.

Some of the people being driven literally insane by the torture of solitary confinement are full-blown pacifists who are more peaceful than MLK and Gandhi. Of course, that's no surprise since both MLK and Gandhi were themselves repeatedly arrested disobedient criminals who both did jail time.

But unlike many inmates today, MLK and Gandhi were actually guilty of the crimes with which they were charged.

Many people in jail or prison for non-violent crimes today aren't even guilty of the allegations, not that it matters, since the allegations are for non-violent victimless activities like marijuana possession.

More often than not, the violent victimizers are law-abiders.
Favorite Philosopher: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes Signature Addition: View official OnlineBookClub.org review of In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

View Bookshelves page for In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
#465015
#WarOnDrugs #CivilForfeiture #Statism #NannyState #MassIncarceration #DefundTheDEA #EndTheWarOnDrugs


Selected quotes from video:
Often acting on little or no information, federal Drug Enforcement Administration agents target certain travelers and bully them into letting their bags be searched.
The DEA agent claimed that he could keep and search David's bag. But that's just not true. The Fourth Amendment protects the stuff in your bag just as much as the stuff in your pockets.
In the moment, I felt extremely violated by his actions. I felt extremely angry and extremely shocked by what happened. I think over the past few months, as the anger has dissipated, it's been a feeling of just privileged in the sense that nothing had happened to me, but injustice for those where something much worse had happened to them.
What happened to David was illegal, but sadly it occurs every day at America's airports. The reason? Something known as civil forfeiture. It is completely legal to travel domestically, as David was, with any amount of cash. But agencies like the DEA seize cash anyway. Why? Under civil forfeiture laws, they get to keep the lion's share of any cash they can seize and successfully forfeit. So if David had been flying with a large amount of cash, the agent would have seized it, just like what happened to our clients Rebecca Brown, Stacy Jones, Kermit Warren, Jerry Johnson, Rustem Kazazi, and others.
Favorite Philosopher: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes Signature Addition: View official OnlineBookClub.org review of In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

View Bookshelves page for In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
#465016
Why not a topic that shares goodness? Once aversion enters one's heart, yours know,...

After all, it's always an individual act, and also hard to know all right.
Favorite Philosopher: Sublime Buddha no philosopher
By value
#465106
I once reported about a case that involved repeated solitary confinement of an elderly man with a Nazi camp syndrome.

🍅 SP Raises Parliamentary Questions on the Fatal Mistreatment of Elderly Nazi Camp Survivor

The recent death of a dementia patient with a history of Nazi camp internment has ignited a firestorm of ethical debate and political inquiry in the Netherlands. The incident, which occurred at the Haarlem clinic 'De Geestgronden', involves allegations of what the family describes as torture, raising profound questions about the nature of care, institutional responsibility, and the long-term effects of historical trauma.

Joop van Put, a 77-year-old man suffering from dementia and what his family terms "camp syndrome," died on January 2nd following a series of controversial interventions at the psychiatric facility. Despite explicit warnings from his daughter about his vulnerable psychological state and traumatic past, Mr. van Put was subjected to isolation practices that his family claims directly contributed to his death.

The sequence of events began on November 21st of the previous year when Mr. van Put was forcibly admitted to the crisis unit of Zuiderpoort, a facility operated by GGZ inGeest. Upon arrival, he was sedated, stripped of his clothing, and placed in isolation—actions that, given his history as a camp survivor, carry particularly weighty implications.

Mr. van Put's daughter recounts finding her father "crying and shivering from the cold" the day after his admission. She emphasizes that she had informed the attending psychiatrist of her father's internment history in Nazi camps during World War II, stressing his status as a recognized war victim. Despite assurances that further isolation would not occur, Mr. van Put was again placed in seclusion merely three days later.

"My father was totally broken," his daughter stated in a radio interview. "That isolation ripped open his Nazi camp past with a large dagger." The family contends that Mr. van Put's subsequent death from a heart attack was a direct consequence of his treatment at the facility.

Clinical psychologist and seclusion expert Bert van der Werf characterizes the use of isolation in this case as "disproportionate," asserting that "placing elderly people with dementia in isolation is an absolute contraindication." Van der Werf suggests that the mishandling of Mr. van Put's case stems from systemic issues, including inadequate specialized care for dementia patients.

The incident has drawn the attention of political figures, with SP Member of Parliament Henk van Gerven describing the seclusion as "pointless and inhumane." Van Gerven has posed parliamentary questions to the Minister of Health, Welfare and Sport, seeking clarification on the events and expressing concern about potential systemic issues within the institution.

Adding to the controversy, it has emerged that the Health Care Inspectorate was not initially informed about the seclusions, a required reporting procedure. Inspectorate spokesperson Wouter van der Horst confirms that contact has been made with GGZ inGeest following the news reports, stating, "Both seclusions were not reported, and they should have been."

GGZ inGeest has declined to comment on the specific incident, citing privacy concerns. Deputy medical director Paulan Stärcke offered only a general statement, noting that seclusion can be used as a last resort for dementia patients when necessary to ensure safety, but it is "absolutely not the first choice."

The institution's reticence has further fueled criticism. Van Gerven expresses dismay at the lack of transparency, stating, "I'm surprised that no one from the institution is saying: this can't go on like this. Is there no one who thinks this should be prevented? If we start to consider this as normal, the norm will keep shifting further."


Image
https://www.zielenknijper.com/
(shrink.com)

The critical blog zielenknijper.com took on such cases between 2006-2014, as part of its fundamental questioning of the idea that mind is produced by the 🧠 brain. It is nice to see that the author of this forum cares for similar cases.

Samana Johann wrote: July 11th, 2024, 7:23 pm Why not a topic that shares goodness? Once aversion enters one's heart, yours know,...

After all, it's always an individual act, and also hard to know all right.
The advice that I have always given to people: maintain focus on how the world should be. Perhaps you are right to some extent, but when it concerns questions of human culture, it might be argued that these cases should not be neglected.
#465135
value wrote: July 13th, 2024, 11:32 am
Samana Johann wrote: July 11th, 2024, 7:23 pm Why not a topic that shares goodness? Once aversion enters one's heart, yours know,...

After all, it's always an individual act, and also hard to know all right.
The advice that I have always given to people: maintain focus on how the world should be. Perhaps you are right to some extent, but when it concerns questions of human culture, it might be argued that these cases should not be neglected.
Good householder. It's global media culture to elevate one's ideas by pointing on the bad. That was just a tiny point on how "Big governments" act. In cases of good, there seems to be any neglection.

It's not about how the world should be, but how one could view things, address things, so that it is conductive for one's own well-being and that of others. Witch-hunting might be an easy tool to catch following, yet one might forget that it's easy to become the witch himself.

Harm is never overcome by harm, but only by no-harm.
Favorite Philosopher: Sublime Buddha no philosopher
By value
#465151
A philosopher on [external link] once mentioned the following:

"There is no greater example of mental weakness than the idea that military technology and might is the solution to war. It is this very weakness that fuels our wars. Violence begets violence and nothing more."

Spinoza argued the following:

He who is led by fear, and does good in order to escape evil, is not led by reason.
...
Corollary.--Under desire which springs from reason, we seek good directly, and shun evil indirectly.


This is what I intended to indicate: to maintain focus within the scope of reason. To maintain focus on good. Start from a vision of good, even when addressing the bad.


You wrote the following:
Samana Johann wrote: July 11th, 2024, 7:23 pm Why not a topic that shares goodness? Once aversion enters one's heart, yours know,...

After all, it's always an individual act, and also hard to know all right.
When addressing cultural problems, such as is being done in this topic. Can you please describe more specifically what is detrimental about it in your opinion? Would it be wrong to hold the greater authority responsible in the case of the cited incidents?


As an example: LuckyR suggested that the incidents reported in this topic cannot be connected to a 'state' or 'police officers' acting as a whole, but when the issues are neglected and unreported by those enforcing authorities, then it can be an argument that the state or police officers are to be held responsible as a whole, and thus it would become the responsibility of others to act on behalf of the moral responsibility to foster 'ought' cultural change.
LuckyR wrote: April 3rd, 2023, 6:00 pm Just to clarify, the police are representatives of the government when they enforce governmental laws according to governmental guidelines. Rogue cops acting outside of the above are just individuals acting badly (which no job description is immune to, even authors).
The case that I shared in my previous post is about that. It shows a politician asking "I'm surprised that no one from the institution is saying: this can't go on like this. Is there no one who thinks this should be prevented? If we start to consider this as normal, the norm will keep shifting further.".

The reporting is about more than the bad in the incident. The case reveals a more fundamental problem at the institutional level: people within the institution are being silent by which severe problems can manifest, because of which the institution and even its higher authority in the form of a medical authority is to be declared responsible.

What is the reason that the nurses in my example case were silent? What appears to be an incident or 'individual bad actors' may actually reveal something more fundamental at the higher authority level: the culture of the greater medical profession or authority that the institution is a part of.
Last edited by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes on August 27th, 2024, 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: remove link
#465163
People always like to claim others for their misery, and usually start by their parents, teacher, leader. Yet nobody asked them to come, but accepted them at first place.

Seldom does on focus on his duties, obligations, in regard of goodness. Yours does no more go after culture, does not even understand what cultivation means but sees delight in de-generating for the sake of feeling remorseless and gifted to consume.

It's the age of frogs biting snakes. Parents act as slaves of their children...

If able to solve an issue, and acts are the causes of issues, meaning prevent someone acting wrong, or encourage to bend ways, that's praiseworthy.

Compensation justice, again, has no use for anybody, it just makes people hang on an illusion that ideals can be demanded, and broken could be fixed. People meet the fruits of their deeds in all cirumstances, there is no way to escape.

Rebelling the foolish mass against their authorities makes things just worse. Yours wouldn't be able to look after them either. People gather together, find together, again and again, on an element. Certain nourishment, and ways of gain (virtue) is the spectrum of elements.

Sharing good deeds, of oneself and others, is not only generous, meaning certain liberating, but helps also to bend wrong into right view, which leads even toward the Brahmas and beyond.

At least, ill-will or desire to keep control, is one of the five hindrances for doing one's task, saying "I only will do, if I get what I think it should be". This fool spends all his time to sympathies with hellish states by touching things far out of his control and his own work stays undone. Is unable to gather effort and go on.
Favorite Philosopher: Sublime Buddha no philosopher
#467226
Reuters (July 23rd, 2024): Video of Illinois deputy shooting Black woman

Reuters wrote:Massey [the victim] then said: "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus," after which Grayson [the cop] aimed his gun at her and threatened to shoot her in the face.

As Grayson [the cop] instructed her to drop the pot, Massey [the victim] said, "I'm sorry" and began to duck.

During this exchange, Massey [the victim] made no apparent verbal threats nor any movement in the officers' direction.

Grayson [the cop] made two steps toward the kitchen, yelled at her to drop the pot again and began shooting. He then alerted his superiors that he had shot Massey in the face and turned on his body camera. The entire incident was caught on the second officer's camera.
He was smart enough to wait to turn on his body cam until after shooting the poor woman in the face while she ducked in fear.

He would have gotten away with it if only it hadn't been caught on the other cop's body cam.




meddling-body-cams.jpg
meddling-body-cams.jpg (93.8 KiB) Viewed 513 times
Favorite Philosopher: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes Signature Addition: View official OnlineBookClub.org review of In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

View Bookshelves page for In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
#467665
Favorite Philosopher: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes Signature Addition: View official OnlineBookClub.org review of In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

View Bookshelves page for In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

Current Philosophy Book of the Month

The Riddle of Alchemy

The Riddle of Alchemy
by Paul Kiritsis
January 2025

2025 Philosophy Books of the Month

On Spirits: The World Hidden Volume II

On Spirits: The World Hidden Volume II
by Dr. Joseph M. Feagan
April 2025

Escape to Paradise and Beyond (Tentative)

Escape to Paradise and Beyond (Tentative)
by Maitreya Dasa
March 2025

They Love You Until You Start Thinking for Yourself

They Love You Until You Start Thinking for Yourself
by Monica Omorodion Swaida
February 2025

The Riddle of Alchemy

The Riddle of Alchemy
by Paul Kiritsis
January 2025

2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Connecting the Dots: Ancient Wisdom, Modern Science

Connecting the Dots: Ancient Wisdom, Modern Science
by Lia Russ
December 2024

The Advent of Time: A Solution to the Problem of Evil...

The Advent of Time: A Solution to the Problem of Evil...
by Indignus Servus
November 2024

Reconceptualizing Mental Illness in the Digital Age

Reconceptualizing Mental Illness in the Digital Age
by Elliott B. Martin, Jr.
October 2024

Zen and the Art of Writing

Zen and the Art of Writing
by Ray Hodgson
September 2024

How is God Involved in Evolution?

How is God Involved in Evolution?
by Joe P. Provenzano, Ron D. Morgan, and Dan R. Provenzano
August 2024

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters
by Howard Wolk
July 2024

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side
by Thomas Richard Spradlin
June 2024

Neither Safe Nor Effective

Neither Safe Nor Effective
by Dr. Colleen Huber
May 2024

Now or Never

Now or Never
by Mary Wasche
April 2024

Meditations

Meditations
by Marcus Aurelius
March 2024

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

The In-Between: Life in the Micro

The In-Between: Life in the Micro
by Christian Espinosa
January 2024

2023 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021


It is unfair for a national broadcaster to favour […]

The trouble with astrology is that constellati[…]

A particular religious group were ejected from[…]

A naturalist's epistemology??

Gertie wrote ........ I was going through all […]