Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[LuckyR]

...In other words is morality an aspirational guideline or description of behaviour?

The former, IMO.

We are in agreement. Therefore one can document moral standards with a questionaire, that is without measuring behavior.

[Pattern-chaser]

...one can document moral standards with a questionaire, that is without measuring behavior.

OK, but what do you (we) gain from that? A homogenised view of human behaviour. With all the details, perhaps important details (), lost in the averaging process? What of the human aspects that such a statistical approach doesn't (can't) even look for, never mind capture?

Ethics and morality can definitely be studied, and perhaps we can learn worthwhile things by doing so. But not by using the tool we call "science", despite its phenomenal (and deserved) successes in other areas. Horses for courses. This is a non-science course, I think.

[Stoppelmann]

A development of the OP:

Morality is a system of principles, values, and beliefs about what is right and wrong, good and bad, and just and unjust. It helps to guide our behaviour and decision-making and plays an important role in shaping our individual and collective identity. In short, our morality or our ethics tell people where we are from, or what group we belong to, which we identify by its behaviour rather than its genetic build. It does mean that morality is subjective and culturally relative, meaning that different individuals and cultures may have different moral systems, and moral judgments can be complex and may involve weighing competing values and considerations.

Morality is important therefore, first because it helps promote social cohesion and cooperation by providing a shared set of norms and expectations, which aims to prevent harm to individuals and society by promoting appropriate responsible behaviour. In addition, morality can contribute to a sense of personal fulfilment and meaning by helping individuals to live according to agreed values and principles. It can also inspire individuals to work towards a better world, by promoting justice, equality, and compassion in agreement with those initial principles.

[Pattern-chaser]

A development of the OP:

Morality is a system of principles, values, and beliefs about what is right and wrong, good and bad, and just and unjust. It helps to guide our behaviour and decision-making and plays an important role in shaping our individual and collective identity. In short, our morality or our ethics tell people where we are from, or what group we belong to, which we identify by its behaviour rather than its genetic build. It does mean that morality is subjective and culturally relative, meaning that different individuals and cultures may have different moral systems, and moral judgments can be complex and may involve weighing competing values and considerations.

Morality is important therefore, first because it helps promote social cohesion and cooperation by providing a shared set of norms and expectations, which aims to prevent harm to individuals and society by promoting appropriate responsible behaviour. In addition, morality can contribute to a sense of personal fulfilment and meaning by helping individuals to live according to agreed values and principles. It can also inspire individuals to work towards a better world, by promoting justice, equality, and compassion in agreement with those initial principles.

This seems to be a more positive approach to the issue of ethics and morality.

If I'm being picky (), I would prefer to remove the text I highlighted in blue, so that it no longer speculates about the aims of a particular society in establishing its 'rules'. But if I'm not being so picky, this is a good approach. Perhaps we can work on/with this, here in this topic?

[LuckyR]

...one can document moral standards with a questionaire, that is without measuring behavior.

OK, but what do you (we) gain from that? A homogenised view of human behaviour. With all the details, perhaps important details (), lost in the averaging process? What of the human aspects that such a statistical approach doesn't (can't) even look for, never mind capture?

Ethics and morality can definitely be studied, and perhaps we can learn worthwhile things by doing so. But not by using the tool we call "science", despite its phenomenal (and deserved) successes in other areas. Horses for courses. This is a non-science course, I think.

Well if the social sciences are sciences, then they dovetail nicely with human subjective topics such as moral standards. If one declares "science" encompasses physics, chemistry, biology and mathematics but sociology, psychology, ecomonics and political science are NOT science, then your comment is logical.

[Pattern-chaser]

If one declares "science" encompasses physics, chemistry, biology, and mathematics but sociology, psychology, economics and political science are NOT science, then your comment is logical.

Yes. I think that is so. Not in a dogmatic, witch-burning way, but I see fundamental difficulties in the contrast between the scientific method and its formality, and 'subjective subjects' that involve our thinking, behaviour and culture. Those formal methods expect consistency of observation, repeatability, testability, and falsifiability. Such methods are difficult to apply — usefully and meaningfully! — to morality (and also to alt-truth, and maybe the Eurovision Song Contest, and so on).

Thus, I conclude that human culture is not an appropriate subject for science to investigate.

And yet such subjects can be, and are, investigated by humans, with useful and valid results. I question only the choice of tool(s) that we use to consider them.

[Xenophon]

There has been some dispute in this forum as to the value of morality, in some cases using the term "moral superstitions", and there has been considerable effort made in defining morality.

We can quote sources over and over and over again, but I asked Chat AI the following question, because it has been known to give balanced answers:

Is morality important?

The answer I received was:

As an AI language model, I do not have personal beliefs or values, but I can provide information and perspectives on the importance of morality.

Morality is a system of principles, values, and beliefs about what is right and wrong, good and bad, and just and unjust. It helps to guide our behavior and decision-making, and plays an important role in shaping our individual and collective identity.

Morality can be important for a variety of reasons. For one, it can help promote social cohesion and cooperation by providing a shared set of norms and expectations. It can also help to prevent harm to individuals and society by promoting ethical and responsible behavior.

In addition, morality can contribute to a sense of personal fulfillment and meaning by helping individuals to live according to their values and principles. It can also inspire individuals to work towards a better world, by promoting justice, equality, and compassion.

However, it's worth noting that morality can also be subjective and culturally relative, meaning that different individuals and societies may have different moral systems. Furthermore, moral judgments can be complex and may involve weighing competing values and considerations.

Overall, while the importance of morality may vary from person to person and society to society, it can play a significant role in shaping human behavior and guiding us towards a more just and ethical world.

Would this be compatible with your concept of morality?

Is morality important? Try answering no when your wife or banker puts the question to you. Maybe you can make a go of it, but I guarantee your life will become an adventure of a lasting sudden.

[Lagayascienza]

Of course morality is important. If it weren't important, a great deal of philosophy over the last couple of millennia would not have been devoted to it, and we would not be still discussing it here today. And, as LuckyR mentioned, science finds it worth looking into, too, and has, arguably, made some progress. For example, the relatively new field of evolutionary ethics has, IMO, yielded valuable insights into the origins of our core moral values and into what it is we are doing when we moralize. This work has to some extent neutralized the so called "naturalistic fallacy" and Hume's "is/ought gap".

Morality will always be important to us. We can't help it. It's who we are. Things just matter to us. It's possible (although I think unlikely) that the space behind our eyes is the only place in the entire universe where mattering happens. If that were true, maybe it would make humans, and their morality, kinda special. And even if there are millions of intelligent, sentient beings out their, I would hazard a guess that some sort of morality is important to them, too.

[Xenophon]

I am reminded that the late Walter Kaufmann opined that, "Those who teach ethics are primarily interested in telling other people what to do."

[berlin]

Yes, morality is crucial as it guides our behavior and helps maintain social harmony. It sets standards for what is considered right and wrong, influencing our decisions and interactions with others. A strong moral framework fosters trust, empathy, and fairness, which are essential for building a just and cohesive society.

[Lagayascienza]

Not all moral frameworks do that. The moral framework of the Nazis, for example, certainly didn't foster trust, empathy, and fairness.

[Xenophon]

If morality were really important, wouldn't the UK start exporting its homicidal pongoid populace? Clearly incompatible breeds have been carelessly commingled. Zookeepers are fired for that.