Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sy Borg]

This war was Hamas's decision, and its continuation and escalation has been Hamas's decision.

The war started long before last October. Hamas' recent action was armed resistance to a long-standing invasion and occupation. The only part of it that I condemn — and I condemn it strongly — is that I think they could've and should've directed their attacks at Israeli military targets.

No, Hamas were at war.

Israel was not at war. They were simply salami-slicing - just like China is doing in Bhutan, Nepal, India and Russia ... but none of those countries are sending in missiles to kill over a thousand civilians and to capture and torture over a hundred hostages.

This looks like cognitive dissonance to me. No one can even acknowledge this point, let alone ponder its significance.

I will always be more objective in this issue than you because I'm not allowing my reason to be distorted by emotion. I have no dog in this fight. I'm just watching people here and elsewhere embarrass themselves by slavishly following the news media in what appears to be an attempt to publicly paint themselves as people of conscience. It's largely just virtue signalling.

Today I saw a headline in the news. One Palestinian dead, with a picture of a crying woman in a head scarf.

Fifty-six Sudanese have just been killed in Darfur. The western media's response? Crickets.

Never mind Syria or Yemen or various other African disaster zones. The hypocrisy and double standards are becoming increasingly pronounced.

[Belinda]

This war was Hamas's decision, and its continuation and escalation has been Hamas's decision.

The war started long before last October. Hamas' recent action was armed resistance to a long-standing invasion and occupation. The only part of it that I condemn — and I condemn it strongly — is that I think they could've and should've directed their attacks at Israeli military targets.

No, Hamas were at war.

Israel was not at war. They were simply salami-slicing - just like China is doing in Bhutan, Nepal, India and Russia ... but none of those countries are sending in missiles to kill over a thousand civilians and to capture and torture over a hundred hostages.

This looks like cognitive dissonance to me. No one can even acknowledge this point, let alone ponder its significance.

I will always be more objective in this issue than you because I'm not allowing my reason to be distorted by emotion. I have no dog in this fight. I'm just watching people here and elsewhere embarrass themselves by slavishly following the news media in what appears to be an attempt to publicly paint themselves as people of conscience. It's largely just virtue signalling.

Today I saw a headline in the news. One Palestinian dead, with a picture of a crying woman in a head scarf.

Fifty-six Sudanese have just been killed in Darfur. The western media's response? Crickets.

Never mind Syria or Yemen or various other African disaster zones. The hypocrisy and double standards are becoming increasingly pronounced.

Would you not consider the discrepancy you so often draw our attention to is not because of hatred or dislike of Jews but maybe it's because Israel seems a nation like ours, a developed European democracy ? As a European democracy we mostly expect Israel to conform to international laws.

[Belinda]

This war was Hamas's decision, and its continuation and escalation has been Hamas's decision.

The war started long before last October. Hamas' recent action was armed resistance to a long-standing invasion and occupation. The only part of it that I condemn — and I condemn it strongly — is that I think they could've and should've directed their attacks at Israeli military targets.

No, Hamas were at war.

Israel was not at war. They were simply salami-slicing - just like China is doing in Bhutan, Nepal, India and Russia ... but none of those countries are sending in missiles to kill over a thousand civilians and to capture and torture over a hundred hostages.

This looks like cognitive dissonance to me. No one can even acknowledge this point, let alone ponder its significance.

I will always be more objective in this issue than you because I'm not allowing my reason to be distorted by emotion. I have no dog in this fight. I'm just watching people here and elsewhere embarrass themselves by slavishly following the news media in what appears to be an attempt to publicly paint themselves as people of conscience. It's largely just virtue signalling.

Today I saw a headline in the news. One Palestinian dead, with a picture of a crying woman in a head scarf.

Fifty-six Sudanese have just been killed in Darfur. The western media's response? Crickets.

Never mind Syria or Yemen or various other African disaster zones. The hypocrisy and double standards are becoming increasingly pronounced.

Would you not consider the discrepancy you so often draw our attention to is not because of hatred or dislike of Jews but maybe it's because Israel seems a nation like ours, a developed European democracy ? As a European democracy we mostly expect Israel to conform to international laws.

At its establishment in 1948 it was not generally expected that Israel would become a rogue nation.

[Sculptor1]

Antisemitic statement of the day.

"Stories of babies being beheaded and ripped out of mother's bodies are false."

[Sy Borg]

This war was Hamas's decision, and its continuation and escalation has been Hamas's decision.

The war started long before last October. Hamas' recent action was armed resistance to a long-standing invasion and occupation. The only part of it that I condemn — and I condemn it strongly — is that I think they could've and should've directed their attacks at Israeli military targets.

No, Hamas were at war.

Israel was not at war. They were simply salami-slicing - just like China is doing in Bhutan, Nepal, India and Russia ... but none of those countries are sending in missiles to kill over a thousand civilians and to capture and torture over a hundred hostages.

This looks like cognitive dissonance to me. No one can even acknowledge this point, let alone ponder its significance.

I will always be more objective in this issue than you because I'm not allowing my reason to be distorted by emotion. I have no dog in this fight. I'm just watching people here and elsewhere embarrass themselves by slavishly following the news media in what appears to be an attempt to publicly paint themselves as people of conscience. It's largely just virtue signalling.

Today I saw a headline in the news. One Palestinian dead, with a picture of a crying woman in a head scarf.

Fifty-six Sudanese have just been killed in Darfur. The western media's response? Crickets.

Never mind Syria or Yemen or various other African disaster zones. The hypocrisy and double standards are becoming increasingly pronounced.

Would you not consider the discrepancy you so often draw our attention to is not because of hatred or dislike of Jews but maybe it's because Israel seems a nation like ours, a developed European democracy ? As a European democracy we mostly expect Israel to conform to international laws.

At its establishment in 1948 it was not generally expected that Israel would become a rogue nation.

It is indeed that Israel is like us. Thus they are expected to have moral agency. Palestine is clearly considered by its most fervent supporters as a s nation of mindless primitives, unable to think for themselves, strategise or display any sign of moral agency - unlike us terribly advanced westerners. The arrogance and double standards are notable.

In truth, in this battle, Hamas has utterly kicked western backsides strategically. The Palestinians die, the stronger hamas becomes and the weaker Israel becomes. And they achieved all this (plus scuppering the proposed Saudi/Israel deal) by killing a few thousand with missiles, kidnapping and torturing hundreds more and maintaining a stance that ensure maximum Palestinian deaths. Their punishment? The UN is offering them a place at the table.

[Belinda]

The war started long before last October. Hamas' recent action was armed resistance to a long-standing invasion and occupation. The only part of it that I condemn — and I condemn it strongly — is that I think they could've and should've directed their attacks at Israeli military targets.

No, Hamas were at war.

Israel was not at war. They were simply salami-slicing - just like China is doing in Bhutan, Nepal, India and Russia ... but none of those countries are sending in missiles to kill over a thousand civilians and to capture and torture over a hundred hostages.

This looks like cognitive dissonance to me. No one can even acknowledge this point, let alone ponder its significance.

I will always be more objective in this issue than you because I'm not allowing my reason to be distorted by emotion. I have no dog in this fight. I'm just watching people here and elsewhere embarrass themselves by slavishly following the news media in what appears to be an attempt to publicly paint themselves as people of conscience. It's largely just virtue signalling.

Today I saw a headline in the news. One Palestinian dead, with a picture of a crying woman in a head scarf.

Fifty-six Sudanese have just been killed in Darfur. The western media's response? Crickets.

Never mind Syria or Yemen or various other African disaster zones. The hypocrisy and double standards are becoming increasingly pronounced.

Would you not consider the discrepancy you so often draw our attention to is not because of hatred or dislike of Jews but maybe it's because Israel seems a nation like ours, a developed European democracy ? As a European democracy we mostly expect Israel to conform to international laws.

At its establishment in 1948 it was not generally expected that Israel would become a rogue nation.

It is indeed that Israel is like us. Thus they are expected to have moral agency. Palestine is clearly considered by its most fervent supporters as a s nation of mindless primitives, unable to think for themselves, strategise or display any sign of moral agency - unlike us terribly advanced westerners. The arrogance and double standards are notable.

In truth, in this battle, Hamas has utterly kicked western backsides strategically. The Palestinians die, the stronger hamas becomes and the weaker Israel becomes. And they achieved all this (plus scuppering the proposed Saudi/Israel deal) by killing a few thousand with missiles, kidnapping and torturing hundreds more and maintaining a stance that ensure maximum Palestinian deaths. Their punishment? The UN is offering them a place at the table.

What else would you have; a war of attrition? Or tit for tat ad nauseam?
Even ordinary hostage takers are bargained with if possible!

[Pattern-chaser]

Palestine is clearly considered by its most fervent supporters as a s nation of mindless primitives, unable to think for themselves, strategise or display any sign of moral agency - unlike us terribly advanced westerners.

Huh? Where did you get this from? I have seen no mention of such attitudes, except perhaps from Palestine's opponents?

[Sy Borg]

Palestine is clearly considered by its most fervent supporters as a s nation of mindless primitives, unable to think for themselves, strategise or display any sign of moral agency - unlike us terribly advanced westerners.

Huh? Where did you get this from? I have seen no mention of such attitudes, except perhaps from Palestine's opponents?

I've mentioned this more than once and will not explain again because this thread has been a bore for weeks.

[Pattern-chaser]

I've mentioned this more than once and will not explain again because this thread has been a bore for weeks.

Then stop posting Zionist dogma and propaganda? That way, others will not feel a need to, er, balance your assertions, and the thread will fade...

[Sy Borg]

I've mentioned this more than once and will not explain again because this thread has been a bore for weeks.

Then stop posting Zionist dogma and propaganda? That way, others will not feel a need to, er, balance your assertions, and the thread will fade...

You are the one posting propaganda. I'm just calling out your double/multiple standards, the inconsistencies in your advocacy.

If you were really so worried about human suffering, you would have been all over this board for years trying to raise awareness of the constant stream of horrors that can be found daily amongst the activity of eight billion humans. However, since you were not hypnotised by academia's and the mainstream media's push for self-destructive virtue-signalling on this one issue amongst thousands, you just talked about life, the universe and everything like a sane human being. You had your own mind and you tried to be objective, not to be unbalanced. Now you're all in, even calling my comments "Zionist propaganda".

Infada comrade! From the river to the sea, Israel shall cease to be! Yeah, I hear that anti-Semitic violence has markedly increased, so it's pretty clear that much anti-Semitic statements are flowing around society now. Anti-Semitism has joined anti-white racism as being considered a respectable stance in media and academia.

These are not judged by the same standards as racism against any other group, regardless of how empowered or disempowered they are. There is a lack of consistency. I don't consider inconsistency to be a crime but the fact is that these inconsistencies - and hypocrisies - exist and and becoming more common.

But I suppose you'd call all that "Zionist propaganda". Just using that term tells me that you are already down the rabbit hole as a true believer. It's a shame. You have a good perceptions when you are not trying to show off how virtuous you are.

It's an issue in philosophy IMO, where people become ethically precious, forgetting that:

1) there's always more than one (or even two)sides to every story,

2) we genuinely cannot save everyone, and

3) that the word "enough" exists, and the concept is helpful.

[amorphos_ii]

I am appalled at all wars yes, but particularly at the Jews acting in such a barbaric manner [because I expect more of them and us]. We all know what will happen, they will take over Gaza and it will become another west bank. We will see settlers moving in and murdering people as they go.

The Palestinians have every right to they land they have always lived on, Israel was originally a small part of what it claims to be now. The only solution is sharing and you only achieve that through peace, and not by virtually imprisoning an entire ethnic population.

[Sy Borg]

I am appalled at all wars yes, but particularly at the Jews acting in such a barbaric manner [because I expect more of them and us].

Thank you for making clear the double standards that you and others hold.

Palestine's supporters see them as primitive and barbaric, so we cannot hold them to the same standards as Israel. The "noble savages" so beloved by virtue-signallers seemingly have no moral agency, so none can be expected from them. They can cut off heads and hammer nails into women's vaginas because they don't know any better.

BTW, it was not always Palestine's land. It was a mix of Syria, Jordan and Egypt that was called Palestine in 1948 during the annexation, which was in response to the fact that many Jewish refugees had moved there are were being slaughtered by the Arabs. So the Jews fought back (there was nowhere else for them, but no one cares about that, only what Palestinians) and there were constant wars. The world attempted to stop the fighting by creating Israel, but the Arabs will never stop fighting because their hatred of Jews is extreme.

Maybe white Europe need to start slaughtering all those Islamic refugees and economic migrants who have flooded in. That's basically what the Arabs of the land not yet known as Palestine did. However, it seems that slaughtering refugees is fine if they are Jews.

Double standards everywhere, and zero accountability for Hamas and Palestine because their best friends in the west believe that Palestinians are too stupid, mindless, primitive and incompetent to be expected to behave properly.

[Belinda]

I am appalled at all wars yes, but particularly at the Jews acting in such a barbaric manner [because I expect more of them and us].

Thank you for making clear the double standards that you and others hold.

Palestine's supporters see them as primitive and barbaric, so we cannot hold them to the same standards as Israel. The "noble savages" so beloved by virtue-signallers seemingly have no moral agency, so none can be expected from them. They can cut off heads and hammer nails into women's vaginas because they don't know any better.

BTW, it was not always Palestine's land. It was a mix of Syria, Jordan and Egypt that was called Palestine in 1948 during the annexation, which was in response to the fact that many Jewish refugees had moved there are were being slaughtered by the Arabs. So the Jews fought back (there was nowhere else for them, but no one cares about that, only what Palestinians) and there were constant wars. The world attempted to stop the fighting by creating Israel, but the Arabs will never stop fighting because their hatred of Jews is extreme.

Maybe white Europe need to start slaughtering all those Islamic refugees and economic migrants who have flooded in. That's basically what the Arabs of the land not yet known as Palestine did. However, it seems that slaughtering refugees is fine if they are Jews.

Double standards everywhere, and zero accountability for Hamas and Palestine because their best friends in the west believe that Palestinians are too stupid, mindless, primitive and incompetent to be expected to behave properly.

More than 35,000 Palestinians – the majority of them said to be women and children – have been killed by Israel since it launched its military offensive in response to last October’s Hamas attack, when 1,200 Israelis, mostly civilians, were killed and another 250 were taken hostage.

Today .Guardian newspaper.

[Pattern-chaser]

You are the one posting propaganda.

If I have posted propaganda on this site, please point it out. I will immediately withdraw it, and apologise.

[Pattern-chaser]

I am appalled at all wars yes, but particularly at the Jews acting in such a barbaric manner [because I expect more of them and us]. We all know what will happen, they will take over Gaza and it will become another west bank. We will see settlers moving in and murdering people as they go.

The Palestinians have every right to they land they have always lived on, Israel was originally a small part of what it claims to be now. The only solution is sharing and you only achieve that through peace, and not by virtually imprisoning an entire ethnic population.

Please could you refrain from referring to the participants in the Israeli massacre as "Jews". That many Israeli citizens are also Jewish is irrelevant to this, a discussion about a *territorial* conflict between the nations of Israel and Palestine. The current war in the Middle East is not a religious conflict.

Thanks.