Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

Hello,

I have times when I say, ‘This should have been done or this should have happened’. For example, I have to reach a place on time.

But it doesn't always happen.

When I arrive on time, it is because I have been taking steps to be there. Yet there are times that I try but don't reach on time, and it makes me feel really bad.

Now, just because I don't want to keep myself feeling bad about not reaching on time, I will believe what you say—that there are no shoulds or oughts. How much ever I want to be on time, I can be late or get busy with something else that's important, and I then find myself at a point where I think I use what you have termed spiritual freedom (self-discipline) for being on time without adding a should because it feels bad when the should doesn't happen.

Rather, with self-discipline, I think I keep myself and my life going by putting in efforts or taking steps and going ahead, having more peace with what happens.

Thank you.

P.S. I was reading In It Together but I think your book talks! It's so conversational. I liked the seriousness, the dash of humor. Most importantly the unconditional empathy you can feel towards all. That's amazing. Everywhen and anywhen I enjoyed reading this book.

Hi, Ashwini Tawade,

Please answer all the numbered questions from the OP (Original Post).

Please number your answers so I can easily match each answer to the corresponding question.


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

[Ashwini Tawade]

Hello,

I have times when I say, ‘This should have been done or this should have happened’. For example, I have to reach a place on time.

But it doesn't always happen.

When I arrive on time, it is because I have been taking steps to be there. Yet there are times that I try but don't reach on time, and it makes me feel really bad.

Now, just because I don't want to keep myself feeling bad about not reaching on time, I will believe what you say—that there are no shoulds or oughts. How much ever I want to be on time, I can be late or get busy with something else that's important, and I then find myself at a point where I think I use what you have termed spiritual freedom (self-discipline) for being on time without adding a should because it feels bad when the should doesn't happen.

Rather, with self-discipline, I think I keep myself and my life going by putting in efforts or taking steps and going ahead, having more peace with what happens.

Thank you.

P.S. I was reading In It Together but I think your book talks! It's so conversational. I liked the seriousness, the dash of humor. Most importantly the unconditional empathy you can feel towards all. That's amazing. Everywhen and anywhen I enjoyed reading this book.

Hi, Ashwini Tawade,

Please answer all the numbered questions from the OP (Original Post).

Please number your answers so I can easily match each answer to the corresponding question.


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

1. I should be on time to collect my child from school. Thankfully, I do that in general. But sometimes, even if I am 2-3 minutes late, I start telling myself something. I should not be late.
Ex: I am saying getting late to get my child shouldn't happen for me!

2. Breakfasts should not be distasteful.

3. I should be calmer. But I am not

4. Not absolutely in my control.

5. I would like to think that I can change things. Sometimes, yes, I can. Some things seem out of control.

6. I try. You may not like the word try, but I try to accept everything. Yes, it's how it is!

7. After reading your book and this question, I think saying shouldn't is gibberish. Anything can be. I cannot claim something should be or should not be.

8. There are definitely times when I say that a thing or two from my past should not have happened, but I know I don't control those, so I have to accept 

9. Are we talking about math or calculations here? I think all this was about philosophy?! Just a little of my kidding. Yes, this one’s the best question. I think 2+2 should be 4 for a mathematically correct answer. But 2+2 in life may not always be 4. Am I being understandable? Actually, this confused me. 2+2 should be 4!!!?

10. That disaster should not happen. It causes so much hurt, loss, and pain, and all of these words, when experienced in life, make me sometimes think that a hurricane should not happen. But I know that I have to accept the hurricane and do something about it.

I am still wondering how unconditionality and empathy come so easily to you. I am still in the process of making myself believe and practice. It's been years.

I am glad to be a part of the Online Book Club and this forum.
Thank you.

[Sean Pratrick Tracy]

To the second question, the gangmember that killed this boy describe above should not have been a killer because they are not born a killer and are not ultimate killer. Some condition must have made them so.

These things which are listed above are beyond my control as I could not have avert them or prevent them from being like that.

I don't think I can prevent the killing of the boys.

I will say I'll rather accept what I can not change.

If I say so so, I have reason for saying that those things shouldn't which is different from wether I can control it or not.

Hmm! Number 8th question, I won't like to say that what happened in the past should not have happened.

It would be self-deceiving to say 2 plus 2 is not 4.

I won't say it should not have happened, but if killed people, I will say it would have killed persons because no one will see death and willing to die but some would still die.

[Silvia Orenge]

think what is happening is happening for good and what is going to happen will happen for good. Always take good things from your life and experiences and learn from your failures and mistakes. Rest leave on fortune. We have no control over what is happening and what will be going to happen, we are just a part of it. May be it nature or some omnipotent being who is controls everything. I believe that whatever is happening is happening for good and we all have to play our role in it. The interesting thing is we can choose a positive role or negative but we cannot sit ideal and watch what's happening because if we do sit ideal no one in history will recognize us. So whenever you get chance to pick a side, choose your side carefully because history will remember your contributions, either in a positive way or in a negative way.

[Christine Catarino]

Let me begin by saying that I agree that we have free will to choose; therefore, almost every action we take can be chosen. However, I just recently experienced the loss of a friend, and I am feeling as if there are "shouldn't" have happened moments.

1. Can you give me some specific examples of something that happened that "shouldn't" have happened? A 40-year-old man just died from cancer. He was a husband and a father. He did not choose to die, and he was an amazing person, so he did not deserve to die either. However, as someone religious, I do believe God has a plan for all of us, so God felt it was his time, but for the rest of us, we feel that something like cancer should never have happened to him.

2. Can you give me some specific examples of a person or thing that "shouldn't" be the way it is at the time that it is that way? Pretty much the above example.

3. Can you give me an example of something that "should" be happening right now (relative to you in your present in spacetime) but isn't? I could come up with plenty of "should" happenings, but I, like you, do believe that we choose to make things happen or not happen. So, to answer this question, no I cannot provide an example because if something is not happening or is happening to me then it's due to my own choices.

4. Regarding those things or events that allegedly "shouldn't" be the way they were/are, are those things that are within your control (i.e. a matter of your choice)? No.

5. Are these things that you can change, or are they things that you cannot change? His illness and his passing is not something that I or anyone else could honestly change.

6. Do you (like me) firmly practice the principle of fully, totally, and unconditionally accepting that which you cannot control (a.k.a. that which you cannot change)? I do. I even accepted the death of my friend. Although I feel that his illness and ultimately his passing should not have happened, I understand that it is out of our control. Again, as someone who is religious, I believe it was God's will.


7. Is it possible that when you say something "shouldn't" be the way it is that you are speaking gibberish (i.e. saying something that doesn't actually mean anything, at least not anything coherent)? Not in this case.

8. As you use the words, what would it mean to say some unchangeable aspect of reality (e.g. the past) shouldn't be the way it unchangeably is? Again, the example I am providing is driving this thought process for me, normally, I think similarly to you.

9. For example, as you use the words, what does it mean to say, "2 + 2 should not equal 4"? For me that would not make sense, as 2 + 2 was always taught to me as being equal to 4.

10. What does it mean to say "That hurricane that happened yesterday shouldn't have happened"? Humans cannot control mother nature and the weather.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

Hi, Christine Catarino,

1. Can you give me some specific examples of something that happened that "shouldn't" have happened? A 40-year-old man just died from cancer. He was a husband and a father. He did not choose to die, and he was an amazing person, so he did not deserve to die either. However, as someone religious, I do believe God has a plan for all of us, so God felt it was his time, but for the rest of us, we feel that something like cancer should never have happened to him.

So you are saying God's plan should be different; correct? So you are saying God should be different; correct?

How can you (later in post) say you accept it

To me, as I use terms, to say something should not have happened entails nonacceptance/resentment/unforgiveness/etc. As I use the words, those are all just different ways of describing the same thing. If you use the words differently, can you define what you mean by words like "should" and "ought", especially in the context of saying God's plan or God's creation should be different than it is?


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

[pokey Jake]

I'm persuaded that everything happens for a reason after reading "In It Together." Nothing is that it ought not to be or should not be.

[Ivan Kovic]

If I have a responsibility, is that not something I "should" do? For instance, you have a child, providing for him is what you "should" do. Isn't that right?

[Vivian Writes]

I also believe that I have the freedom of choice, and for those who believe that some thing should happen while others shouldn't, I think it has more to do with what they prefer to happen or not happen. Interesting piece.

[Alida Spies]

4. In regard to those things or events that allegedly "shouldn't" be the way they were/are, are those things that are within your control (i.e. a matter of your choice)? No

5. Are these things that you can change, or are they things that you cannot change? I cannot change them.

6. Do you (like me) firmly practice the principle of fully, totally, and unconditionally accepting that which you cannot control (a.k.a. that which you cannot change)? Yes.

It seems to me like you may have either (1) contradicted yourself or (2) spoken gibberish (i.e. used the word 'should' to mean nothing coherent). However, to see if that appearance is correct let me ask these follow-up questions:

- What does it mean to say some unchangeable aspect of reality (e.g. the past) shouldn't be the way it unchangeably is if not to--in some way or another--refuse to accept it?

- What does it mean to say "2 + 2 should not equal 4; I accept that it does equal 4, but it should not"? As you use the words, what would that sentence mean exactly?

- What does it mean to say "That hurricane that happened yesterday shouldn't have happened! I accept that it did happen, but it shouldn't have happened!" As you use the words, what would that sentence mean?


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

Hi Scott,

I've read the discussion between you and Juanita and I have a much better understanding of your usage of the word "evil" now. As Juanita put it, God made a beautiful, perfect world but He gave people free will and they messed it up. After your last response to Juanita, I agree with your view on "should-not-haves".

I was too focused on my definition of evil and wasn't "listening" to what you were actually saying.

Best regards
Alida

[Scholastica Daniel]

When we say something shouldn't have happened, it simply a means to comfort ourselves and try to put a blame on the mistakes that we might have made. It means we keep playing that event over and over again in our minds, until we get stuck and we are not even trying to look for solutions anymore but play a pity party. It stop us from moving forward and we develop bad habits like being abusive to other.

[Eromosele Success]

What of wishful thinking? Doesn’t “should” come into play when we wish something happens?

[Juanita Phelps]

No. Wishful thinking is wanting something to be true even though it is impossible. I might want to be young and beautiful again. That is wishful thinking.

I might want a war to end in peace although it isn't likely to happen.

In these and other examples of wishful thinking, there can be no should. The Truth of each situation is simply all there is.

This is a different philosophy from should haveness.

[Juanita Phelps]

What of wishful thinking? Doesn’t “should” come into play when we wish something happens?

No. Wishful thinking is wanting something to be true even though it is impossible. I might want to be young and beautiful again. That is wishful thinking.

I might want a war to end in peace although it isn't likely to happen.

In these and other examples of wishful thinking, there can be no should. The Truth of each situation is simply all there is.

This is a different philosophy from should haveness.

[Eromosele Success]

What of wishful thinking? Doesn’t “should” come into play when we wish something happens?

No. Wishful thinking is wanting something to be true even though it is impossible. I might want to be young and beautiful again. That is wishful thinking.

I might want a war to end in peace although it isn't likely to happen.

In these and other examples of wishful thinking, there can be no should. The Truth of each situation is simply all there is.

This is a different philosophy from should haveness.

I believe you’re right. Thanks for the eye opener. Do you really think should and have’s “shouldn’t” exist?