Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Pattern-chaser]

Yes, but there is no word 'anticeltic' in general use.

That only supports my stance that "anti-Semitic" is a term that has been changed from its literal meaning — anti-, against, any/all indigenous people of the Middle East — to one that deliberately obscures and muddles the issues. It is nowadays used, *interchangeably*, to mean against-Jews and/or against-Israel. The term no longer has a useful application.

If there were, I'd probably support Celtic Christianity like I support Judaism.

Celtic religions are/were pre-Christian. There is no such thing as "Celtic Christianity", although there are/were certainly Celts who converted to Christianity, after Christianity was invented.

'Antisemitic' is a term, like 'woke' ,which are words used by the opposition to make liberals and peacemakers look like fools, fanatics, or phobics.

Yes, as I said above. The word has been made unusable.

In actual fact it's the opposition who have turned their backs on Judaism ,and some of the opposition have substituted Zionism for Judaism and Christianity.

In practice, if not in theory, Zionism is a political ideology. I support Jews and Judaism, in the sense that I respect their faith, and their right to believe it, although I personally do not. But I oppose Zionism. It's a political excuse to occupy someone else's land, by claiming God gave it to them, many thousands of years ago.

PS, Semites, meaning ME ancestry ,doesn't apply to Jews whose ancestors were Nordic or Slav.

Yes, this is yet another reason why "anti-Semitism" no longer serves a useful purpose. It still serves a purpose, I agree, but that purpose is not useful; it's divisive, provocative, and propagandist. It is used as a tool of (dishonest) manipulation.

[amorphos_ii]

lol every right wing asshole thinks they have a reason to be better than everyone else!

now explain what it means to be jewish? how can they be Gods chosen people when they have been mixed with other races so much, when many of them aren't religious, and culture is meaningless. there is no such thing as jewish, just people.

imagine if God made everyone forget the labels they place upon themselves, they would not know why they were hating each other and the mirage would be lifted.

i guess God keeps satan like odin keeps loki - rather than destroy them, it's what defines a viking or a monotheist.

[Pattern-chaser]

I'm a Jewish person who is deputy leader of a national party.

I'm also a Jewish person who criticises the Israeli governments actions *because* of my Judaism not in spite of it.

Never again means never again for everyone. The conflation & politicisation must stop.

From X/Twitter, posted by @ZackPolanski today.

[amorphos_ii]

If only!

I think it will happen again but this time numbered in billions. it will be the top end of all world societies hoarding resources and food, whilst feeling the need to dispense of the masses who cost to much. They will have the tech to do it too.
Perhaps the tech will think likewise irrespective, or worse, those at the top will make it look like that. I am deeply concerned about such things because we need to act now, but no-one has said anything about overpopulation apart from ‘what are we supposed to do about that’. Well 1 or 2 child limit would do the trick, and china managed that so the world can. Now to unite the world in any given endeavour lol.

[Belinda]

Yes, but there is no word 'anticeltic' in general use.

That only supports my stance that "anti-Semitic" is a term that has been changed from its literal meaning — anti-, against, any/all indigenous people of the Middle East — to one that deliberately obscures and muddles the issues. It is nowadays used, *interchangeably*, to mean against-Jews and/or against-Israel. The term no longer has a useful application.

If there were, I'd probably support Celtic Christianity like I support Judaism.

Celtic religions are/were pre-Christian. There is no such thing as "Celtic Christianity", although there are/were certainly Celts who converted to Christianity, after Christianity was invented.

'Antisemitic' is a term, like 'woke' ,which are words used by the opposition to make liberals and peacemakers look like fools, fanatics, or phobics.

Yes, as I said above. The word has been made unusable.

In actual fact it's the opposition who have turned their backs on Judaism ,and some of the opposition have substituted Zionism for Judaism and Christianity.

In practice, if not in theory, Zionism is a political ideology. I support Jews and Judaism, in the sense that I respect their faith, and their right to believe it, although I personally do not. But I oppose Zionism. It's a political excuse to occupy someone else's land, by claiming God gave it to them, many thousands of years ago.

PS, Semites, meaning ME ancestry ,doesn't apply to Jews whose ancestors were Nordic or Slav.

Yes, this is yet another reason why "anti-Semitism" no longer serves a useful purpose. It still serves a purpose, I agree, but that purpose is not useful; it's divisive, provocative, and propagandist. It is used as a tool of (dishonest) manipulation.

We agree then, except that Celtic Christianity was indeed a thing. Saint Columba was a major figure in Celtic Christianity which began in Ireland, and at one time coexisted alongside Roman Christianity.

[Sy Borg]

There is little reason for us to care and take sides in regional conflicts unless some of our own are involved. There's certainly no cause to treat one slaughter as an emergency while other slaughters are treated as non-events. That's just anti-Semitism ad there is no way around it.

If we examine this sentiment, using *only* Logic and Reason – and assuming that Logic and Reason are appropriate tools to apply here...? — the holes in your argument quickly become clear. All of these conflicts are undesirable, and most decent people, across the world, would seek to end them all if they could. But to assert that focussing on one is unfair to that 'one', simply doesn't compute. All of these conflicts are wrong, unavoidably including whichever of them we are currently discussing. Your conclusion does *not* follow from ... anything.

Disingenuous.

There is no comparison. The Sudan conflict is far worse but you, an other blind followers of anti-Semitic thought leaders, ignore that but are WHITE HOT about Palestine. Ukraine? Ho hum. Yemen. Zzzz. Syria? Who? Uyghurs? Boring. Palestine - THE JEWS MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!!

Don't you see how irrational and hypocritical your disproportionate responses are?

Over and over again, I assert that all conflicts are wrong, and yet you continue to observe that I don't. You are wrong.

Palestine? Wrong.
Ukraine? Wrong.
Yemen? Wrong.
Syria? Wrong.
Uyghurs? Wrong.

This discussion concerns only one conflict. This topic was, according to its title, *created* to discuss just one of many conflicts. Such a focus is not wrong, or immoral, nor does it give undue priority to one conflict over another.

We can discuss jazz, without demeaning or diminishing Abba...

The thread was created due to the anti-Semitism that has been rife and growing in academia for decades now. Piling on is simply aiding aand abetting anti-Semitism.

There is no reason whatsoever why this conflict should be so highlighted as compared with the others listed above. None. It's purely a kind of second-hand anti-Semitism that was promoted by Marxists in universities, who have deemed the US and Israel as OPPRESSORS.

It's a shame, because this manipulation of academia - the triumph of sharp elbows over sharp minds - bring otherwise good people down dark paths.

[Pattern-chaser]

It's purely a kind of second-hand anti-Semitism that was promoted by Marxists in universities, who have deemed the US and Israel as OPPRESSORS.

But "the US and Israel" *have* acted as "OPPRESSORS" in Palestine, and continue to do so. Israel, with active US support and encouragement, has occupied, and taken ownership of, Palestinian land. This is oppressive in anyone's book, I think.

Empirical observation is not the same thing as Marxists making ideological claims. This oppression *has* occurred.

[Pattern-chaser]

We agree then, except that Celtic Christianity was indeed a thing. Saint Columba was a major figure in Celtic Christianity which began in Ireland, and at one time coexisted alongside Roman Christianity.

Yes, as I said. Once Christianity was invented, some Celts were among its converts (as were others too). But they had religion before Jesus walked the Earth. There was no "Celtic Christianity"; Christianity appeared, and it made converts all over the place, including among Celts. But there was and is no 'flavour' of Christianity that is "Celtic" enough to be described as such. It's Middle-Eastern in origin, as you know!

Of course, many Celts who did convert also bought their own beliefs with them, as many Christian converts did. Retaining their own faith while also accepting the newfangled one. It was almost as though they didn't really want to change from their established faith, but maybe felt they didn't have much choice? 'Conversion' has often been seen as too, er, coercive...? [That last part is speculative, of course; just my opinion of what might have been so.]

[Moreno]

It IS anti-Semitic to be white-hot about this conflict and to not ever raise any issues whatsoever - ever - about any other conflicts

Again, if you are, for example, a US citizen, then your government is directly financing and technically enhancing the military of Israel. This puts the situation in a different context from most other conflicts. As a US citizen, you are, via tax dollars, supporting the practices of the IDF. So, one might and many do feel a responsibility to respond to THAT conflict in ways they would not in relation to others. But I've said this before and I don't think this was responded to.

nor acknowledge that this war was started, and continued by Hamas, not the IDF.

But there are many people who acknowledge that Hamas started this conflict. Some may see the situation as more complicated that 'the conflict started there' but there are many people critical of Israel in this conflict who can acknowledge or even in their opening sallies point out what Hamas did and does. And just as Jewish people in Israel and elsewhere should not be conflated with Israel or the IDF or the government of Israel, Palestinians should not be conflated with Hamas.

Further it's just poor rhetoric or implicit fallacy to argue against a position with your own nebulous evaluation of the intensity of someone else's feelings: white-hot about this conflict. Being white hot about topic, whatever that actually entails in the physiology or experience or even words of the person has NOTHING to do with anti-antisemitism. And I'm sure we've all encountered hateful people of different types who are quite capable of coldly and calmly dehumanizing a race, sexuality, group, etc. It's meaningless, hey, you're emotional, so you're wrong fallacious reasoning, implicit but there.

[Sy Borg]

It IS anti-Semitic to be white-hot about this conflict and to not ever raise any issues whatsoever - ever - about any other conflicts

Again, if you are, for example, a US citizen, then your government is directly financing and technically enhancing the military of Israel. This puts the situation in a different context from most other conflicts. As a US citizen, you are, via tax dollars, supporting the practices of the IDF. So, one might and many do feel a responsibility to respond to THAT conflict in ways they would not in relation to others. But I've said this before and I don't think this was responded to.

I am not a US citizen. I can see concern about spending money on a war people don't want (like how my tax dollars helped fund Australia's wrongful involvement in Iraq). However, I find the level of intensity and hatred is disproportionate. The US has spent far more on Ukraine ... and no one had a problem with the 500,000 killed in Syria, where there was US involvement.

No, it's largely this "second hand anti-Semitism", promoted by those influenced by true racists against Jews in universities. Note that Jewish students are being intimidated and attacked on campuses - is that because they think those students are forcing taxpayers to support the war? Obviously not. It's just simple hatred.

nor acknowledge that this war was started, and continued by Hamas, not the IDF.

But there are many people who acknowledge that Hamas started this conflict. Some may see the situation as more complicated that 'the conflict started there' but there are many people critical of Israel in this conflict who can acknowledge or even in their opening sallies point out what Hamas did and does. And just as Jewish people in Israel and elsewhere should not be conflated with Israel or the IDF or the government of Israel, Palestinians should not be conflated with Hamas.

Further it's just poor rhetoric or implicit fallacy to argue against a position with your own nebulous evaluation of the intensity of someone else's feelings: white-hot about this conflict. Being white hot about topic, whatever that actually entails in the physiology or experience or even words of the person has NOTHING to do with anti-antisemitism. And I'm sure we've all encountered hateful people of different types who are quite capable of coldly and calmly dehumanizing a race, sexuality, group, etc. It's meaningless, hey, you're emotional, so you're wrong fallacious reasoning, implicit but there.

The nebulousness is in your justifications of unjustifiable biases, not in my explanation, which is very clear. If people are white-hot about this conflict and couldn't give a fig about much worse ones, then that is bias. It's not a though anti-Semitism is rare - almost all graduates of major universities are brainwashed into anti-Semitism. Some resist but many fall for it.

So many weasel words being used in this thread by people hoping to avoid facing ugly truths about their personal biases.

[Pattern-chaser]

...almost all graduates of major universities are brainwashed into anti-Semitism.

I think that is difficult to demonstrate? Where are the facts, and where is the fact-checking? Where is the evidence, and of what standard is that evidence? I.e. can this astonishing claim be justified, in any believable manner?

[Sy Borg]

...almost all graduates of major universities are brainwashed into anti-Semitism.

I think that is difficult to demonstrate? Where are the facts, and where is the fact-checking? Where is the evidence, and of what standard is that evidence? 🤔🤔🤔 I.e. can this astonishing claim be justified, in any believable manner?

They are all being brainwashed. The only question is how many take to the brainwashing.

[Pattern-chaser]

...almost all graduates of major universities are brainwashed into anti-Semitism.

I think that is difficult to demonstrate? Where are the facts, and where is the fact-checking? Where is the evidence, and of what standard is that evidence? I.e. can this astonishing claim be justified, in any believable manner?

They are all being brainwashed. The only question is how many take to the brainwashing.

So you have no evidence, no facts, to back up your opinion?

[amorphos_ii]

In a sense we are all being brainwashed, all my life I seen about the holocaust on TV and in the media. I didn’t think anything of it until it got too much, there are new and recent films – as if anyone needs reminding again again, not to mention the countless documentaries. Since the war occurred many Jews have popped up on TV, which again I wouldn’t normally think anything of it, except that it has happened since the war began. There are a lot of Jewish celebs who appear from nowhere and suddenly we are informed that they are indeed celebs.

If it wasn’t so much and so stupidly done – overemphasis on the worst [and questionable] details and whatnot, then I wouldn’t mind. All the liberalism and anti-Islamic sentiment in the media, when the world has been moving toward the right, and all of it to support their position.

Sorry but I find it childish and ridiculous, and so patently obvious, who do they think they are kidding for God’s sake! I think these days the only people who believe their propaganda are them, and yet they still persist, thinking that enough indoctrination will eventually work.

[Sy Borg]

...almost all graduates of major universities are brainwashed into anti-Semitism.

I think that is difficult to demonstrate? Where are the facts, and where is the fact-checking? Where is the evidence, and of what standard is that evidence? 🤔🤔🤔 I.e. can this astonishing claim be justified, in any believable manner?

They are all being brainwashed. The only question is how many take to the brainwashing.

So you have no evidence, no facts, to back up your opinion?

Universities being overtaken by students calling for intafada and "from the river to the sea" is not evidence enough? And how about the kid gloves treatment of these protesters as compared with the harsh treatment of climate change and COVID protesters.

Jewish students being abused and intimidated, afraid to leave their dorms ... do you think that not due to anti-Semitism too?