Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Baggett Yoria]

I believe that things happen in this life for a reason, and if we accept that there is no should-not-have-ness, we can easily have peace and move after a particular failure. However, there are something that should not happen but happen because someone intentionally decided it to happen with the aim of causing discomfort or harm to another fellow. The sufferer of the harm would not have want the evil launched at them to happen but it happen because someone intentionally decided it. In conclusion an example of something or someone that ought not to exist but exist is a person that intentionally do evil to another fellow for their selfish interest. Evil people ought not to exist because they are not burn evil but turned evil because of benefit they could have from doing so.

[Raymonda Onwuka 1]

This is a discussion forum topic for the Philosophy Book of the Month, In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All.


As those who read my book already know, I don't believe in 'shoulds' and 'oughts'.

Accordingly, I don't believe anything happens that '"shouldn't" happen. I don't ever look at some aspect of unchangeable reality, and resentfully think, "It shouldn't be the way it unchangably is!"

In other words, I believe the would-be concept of 'should-ness' and 'should-not-ness' do not exist.

Thus, I don't believe there is anything you 'should' do. Likewise, I don't believe there is anything you 'should' not do.

For example, I neither believe you 'should' drink coffee tomorrow, nor do I believe you 'should' not drink coffee tomorrow.

The same is true of myself: I don't believe I 'should' drink coffee tomorrow; and I don't believe I 'should' not drink coffee tomorrow.

I have freedom of spirit (a.k.a. self-discipline) because I don't believe I'm bound or enslaved by any kind of 'shoulds' or 'oughts'--things I believe are imaginary phantoms. They are just superstitions, closely linked to judgementalism, especially moralizing self-righteous judgementalism. But an enslaving devil, nightmare, or phantom doesn't need to be real to enslave and torture you just the same. The inventive imagining mind can be a torturous master.

Instead, I believe in choice. When it comes to my choices, I always get exactly what I want, meaning what I choose.

Thus, you will never hear me (or anyone else who follows the teaching of my book) say something like "I shouldn't be eating this" while putting it in my mouth, whatever it is. No, we have spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline).

Likewise, as someone who practices the principle of fully and unconditionally accepting that which I cannot change, I absolutely don't look at things I cannot change and engage in resentful judgementalism by tossing around judgemental words like 'should' and 'ought', such as by saying things like, "That thing that happened in the past shouldn't have happened! I wish I could change the past. The past should be different than it is!", or "That thing I cannot change should not be the way it is!", or "The weather shouldn't be the way it is! It should be different!"

Most people who haven't read my book do believe in 'shoulds'. And even some people who have read my book still believe in them, thereby refusing to follow some of the 11 suggestions at the end of the book (namely Suggestion #4).

(Interestingly, most people who read my book agree with it all once they've read it, even though most don't agree with its conclusions before reading. In other words, my book is one of those special kinds of books that actually changes minds and changes lives and gives most readers a totally new perspective on life.)

For those of you who do still believe should-not-have-ness exists, I have some questions below I would love for you to answer. These aren't rhetorical questions. I am genuinely curious to know your answers. I love learning about different viewpoints and perspectives.


1. Can you give me some specific examples of something that happened that "shouldn't" have happened?

2. Can you give me some specific examples of a person or thing that "shouldn't" be the way it is?

3. Can you give me an example of something that "should" be happening right now (relative to you in your present in spacetime) but isn't?

4. In regard to those things or events that allegedly "shouldn't" be the way they were/are, are these things that are within your control (i.e. a matter of your choice)?

5. Are these things that you can change, or are they things that you cannot change?

6. Do you (like me) firmly practice the principle of fully, totally, and unconditionally accepting that which you cannot control (a.k.a. that which you cannot change)?


I look forward to your answers!


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott





no-shoulds.jpg



In addition to having authored his book, In It Together, Eckhart Aurelius Hughes (a.k.a. Scott) runs a mentoring program, with a free option, that guarantees success. Success is guaranteed for anyone who follows the program, both for the free option and the paid option.

I Think question number four makes all the difference, there is no need saying things should be this way or that way if you cannot control it. When a suitation is out of your control, the only thing to do is to do you best, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst

[Juanita Phelps]

1. Can you give me some specific examples of something that happened that "shouldn't" have happened?
I think I can give you some specific examples of “shouldn’t have happened.” I was very young and ran away from home to marry someone of whom my parents did not approve. I shouldn’t have done that. It wrecked my life for many years. He abused me. He shouldn’t have done that. He abused our children. He shouldn’t have done that. We were innocent victims of a narcissist.

2. Can you give me some specific examples of a person or thing that "shouldn't" be the way it is?
America shouldn’t have hungry, homeless children. This is a land of plenty. There is food thrown away daily by individual families, by grocery stores, by restaurants, and other commercial entities. US Veterans shouldn’t have to depend on charity handouts to get houses built for their families or to get physical therapy. Yet, they do.

3. Can you give me an example of something that "should" be happening right now (relative to you in your present in spacetime) but isn't?
Empty buildings that litter this entire country should be available for homeless people to at least escape the elements. I do not mean that they should squat in furnished homes. I am talking about mostly commercial buildings that are left to rack and ruin when tenants move on.

4. In regard to those things or events that allegedly "shouldn't" be the way they were/are, are these things that are within your control (i.e. a matter of your choice)?
Marrying the wrong, older man was a matter of my choice. What I lacked was enough maturity and information to know that he was a brute. My father didn’t allow me to date anyone at all. I was a 3rd year college student, 20 years old, and still under his thumb. It was my choice, but an uninformed choice is no choice at all.

5. Are these things that you can change, or are they things that you cannot change?
I had to grow up and face almost two decades of brutality before I could escape with my children. It is a long story. It was something I could change, but only once I was able to figure out how. As for the homeless and the hungry, no, I cannot change it by myself.

6. Do you (like me) firmly practice the principle of fully, totally, and unconditionally accepting that which you cannot control (a.k.a. that which you cannot change)?
No, I do not accept everything that I, alone, cannot change. I will always advocate for change where change is possible. Education is the first place to begin. Having been a victim advocate, a parenting education facilitator, and a community education facilitator for several years, I can tell you that people do have to help each other when things happen that shouldn’t happen. I respectfully disagree with you.

[Sean Pratrick Tracy]

I love this topic. I understand that Scott tries to let us understand where he stands regarding accepting what we can not control, and therefore never believe in anything call evil or things that should not have been. While this idea is partly, or most of the time true, there are exceptional cases. To explain myself better, let me answer questions raised directly.
(1) planned death is an example of thing that should not have happened if it was not planned.

(2) Someone or group of persons that plan death for another fellow inorder to gain upper hand in the case they were probably competing for. This is an example of a person who shouldn't have been like this in the first place, if he's learn to see reason why they should not kill for a personal interest. This is because no one is born a killer.

(3) I have an uncle who ought to still be alive till now. But he's no more because someone planned his death and successfully executed it.

(4)I can not control the happening of my uncle's death because he's dead before the news got to us.

(5) I can not control it.

(6) Like I've earlier said, I love and believe in accepting things we can not control or prevent from happening as the mentality is necessary to move forward. However, the fact that those regrettable and unfortunate happenings are planned means that it could have been unplanned or not even started in the first place because the doer is not originally born to kill his fellow humans.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

(1) planned death is an example of thing that should not have happened if it was not planned.

Hi, Sean Pratrick Tracy,

I'm sorry I don't understand. It seems you are contradicting yourself, presumably accidentally via some kind of typo. Are you talking about "planned death" or "unplanned death"?

(6) Like I've earlier said, I love and believe in accepting things we can not control or prevent from happening as the mentality is necessary to move forward. However, the fact that those regrettable and unfortunate happenings are planned means that it could have been unplanned or not even started [...]


[Color and emphasis added.]

No, it couldn't have been different.

'"Could have" is just as much of a misery-inducing superstition (a.k.a. illusion) as 'should not have'.

For more on that, please see the following topic of mine:

Let go of the illusion that it could have been any different.



With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

6. Do you (like me) firmly practice the principle of fully, totally, and unconditionally accepting that which you cannot control (a.k.a. that which you cannot change)?
No, I do not accept everything that I, alone, cannot change.

I am so sorry to hear that you do not yet practice the principle of fully accepting what you cannot control and cannot change.

I imagine that, accordingly, you sometimes find yourself feeling significant amounts of resentment (a.k.a. unforgiveness) and maybe even hate, which are miserable things to feel.

Proverbially speaking, I am sure you often find that you are playing cards far worse than some other people (such as myself) play them, since the only way to play the cards the best one can is by--in part--unconditionally accepting the cards one is dealt rather than spending one second or tiny bit of their limited time, resources, or energy on resenting those unchangeable cards or futilely complaining about those unchangeable cards.

Luckily, that is all something you can change, if you so choose.

May I ask, have you read my book, In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All?


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

I believe that things happen in this life for a reason, and if we accept that there is no should-not-have-ness, we can easily have peace and move after a particular failure. However, there are something that should not happen but happen because someone intentionally decided it to happen ...

Hi, Baggett Yoria,

Thank you for your reply. It seems like you are contradicting yourself. Also, you didn't answer the six questions in the OP.

Regardless, may I ask, have you read my book, In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All?


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

Specific examples of something that happened that "shouldn't" have happened could include instances of natural disasters causing harm to innocent people, acts of violence or injustice, or accidents resulting in unfortunate outcomes.

Hi, Tom Blake,

You did not answer all 6 questions. Please do answer all six, by number preferably.

Nonetheless, may I also ask, have you read my book, In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All?


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

[Alida Spies]

Here are my answers to the questions:


1. Can you give me some specific examples of something that happened that "shouldn't" have happened? Hitler experimented on and killed millions of people. The attacks on the Twin Towers.

2. Can you give me some specific examples of a person or thing that "shouldn't" be the way it is at the time that it is that way? Politician inciting people to go out and attack, torture and kill other people.

3. Can you give me an example of something that "should" be happening right now (relative to you in your present in spacetime) but isn't? Police should protect people instead of watching how property is destroyed and people attacked.

4. In regard to those things or events that allegedly "shouldn't" be the way they were/are, are those things that are within your control (i.e. a matter of your choice)? No

5. Are these things that you can change, or are they things that you cannot change? I cannot change them.

6. Do you (like me) firmly practice the principle of fully, totally, and unconditionally accepting that which you cannot control (a.k.a. that which you cannot change)? Yes. God will change them when He's ready.

[Surabhi Rani]

I agree with and believe that 'should-not-have-ness' is an illusion. The reality is always right, and the universe doesn't miscalculate. In other words, I agree with your philosophy.

[Ashwini Tawade]

Hello,

I have times when I say, ‘This should have been done or this should have happened’. For example, I have to reach a place on time.

But it doesn't always happen.

When I arrive on time, it is because I have been taking steps to be there. Yet there are times that I try but don't reach on time, and it makes me feel really bad.

Now, just because I don't want to keep myself feeling bad about not reaching on time, I will believe what you say—that there are no shoulds or oughts. How much ever I want to be on time, I can be late or get busy with something else that's important, and I then find myself at a point where I think I use what you have termed spiritual freedom (self-discipline) for being on time without adding a should because it feels bad when the should doesn't happen.

Rather, with self-discipline, I think I keep myself and my life going by putting in efforts or taking steps and going ahead, having more peace with what happens.

Thank you.

P.S. I was reading In It Together but I think your book talks! It's so conversational. I liked the seriousness, the dash of humor. Most importantly the unconditional empathy you can feel towards all. That's amazing. Everywhen and anywhen I enjoyed reading this book.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

4. In regard to those things or events that allegedly "shouldn't" be the way they were/are, are those things that are within your control (i.e. a matter of your choice)? No

5. Are these things that you can change, or are they things that you cannot change? I cannot change them.

6. Do you (like me) firmly practice the principle of fully, totally, and unconditionally accepting that which you cannot control (a.k.a. that which you cannot change)? Yes.

It seems to me like you may have either (1) contradicted yourself or (2) spoken gibberish (i.e. used the word 'should' to mean nothing coherent). However, to see if that appearance is correct let me ask these follow-up questions:

- What does it mean to say some unchangeable aspect of reality (e.g. the past) shouldn't be the way it unchangeably is if not to--in some way or another--refuse to accept it?

- What does it mean to say "2 + 2 should not equal 4; I accept that it does equal 4, but it should not"? As you use the words, what would that sentence mean exactly?

- What does it mean to say "That hurricane that happened yesterday shouldn't have happened! I accept that it did happen, but it shouldn't have happened!" As you use the words, what would that sentence mean?


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

Hello,

I have times when I say, ‘This should have been done or this should have happened’. For example, I have to reach a place on time.

But it doesn't always happen.

When I arrive on time, it is because I have been taking steps to be there. Yet there are times that I try but don't reach on time, and it makes me feel really bad.

Now, just because I don't want to keep myself feeling bad about not reaching on time, I will believe what you say—that there are no shoulds or oughts. How much ever I want to be on time, I can be late or get busy with something else that's important, and I then find myself at a point where I think I use what you have termed spiritual freedom (self-discipline) for being on time without adding a should because it feels bad when the should doesn't happen.

Rather, with self-discipline, I think I keep myself and my life going by putting in efforts or taking steps and going ahead, having more peace with what happens.

Thank you.

P.S. I was reading In It Together but I think your book talks! It's so conversational. I liked the seriousness, the dash of humor. Most importantly the unconditional empathy you can feel towards all. That's amazing. Everywhen and anywhen I enjoyed reading this book.

Hi, Ashwini Tawade,

Please answer all the numbered questions from the OP (Original Post).

Please number your answers so I can easily match each answer to the corresponding question.


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

[Ashwini Tawade]

Hello,

I have times when I say, ‘This should have been done or this should have happened’. For example, I have to reach a place on time.

But it doesn't always happen.

When I arrive on time, it is because I have been taking steps to be there. Yet there are times that I try but don't reach on time, and it makes me feel really bad.

Now, just because I don't want to keep myself feeling bad about not reaching on time, I will believe what you say—that there are no shoulds or oughts. How much ever I want to be on time, I can be late or get busy with something else that's important, and I then find myself at a point where I think I use what you have termed spiritual freedom (self-discipline) for being on time without adding a should because it feels bad when the should doesn't happen.

Rather, with self-discipline, I think I keep myself and my life going by putting in efforts or taking steps and going ahead, having more peace with what happens.

Thank you.

P.S. I was reading In It Together but I think your book talks! It's so conversational. I liked the seriousness, the dash of humor. Most importantly the unconditional empathy you can feel towards all. That's amazing. Everywhen and anywhen I enjoyed reading this book.

Hi, Ashwini Tawade,

Please answer all the numbered questions from the OP (Original Post).

Please number your answers so I can easily match each answer to the corresponding question.


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

1. I should be on time to collect my child from school. Thankfully, I do that in general. But sometimes, even if I am 2-3 minutes late, I start telling myself something. I should not be late.
Ex: I am saying getting late to get my child shouldn't happen for me!

2. Breakfasts should not be distasteful.

3. I should be calmer. But I am not

4. Not absolutely in my control.

5. I would like to think that I can change things. Sometimes, yes, I can. Some things seem out of control.

6. I try. You may not like the word try, but I try to accept everything. Yes, it's how it is!

7. After reading your book and this question, I think saying shouldn't is gibberish. Anything can be. I cannot claim something should be or should not be.

8. There are definitely times when I say that a thing or two from my past should not have happened, but I know I don't control those, so I have to accept 

9. Are we talking about math or calculations here? I think all this was about philosophy?! Just a little of my kidding. Yes, this one’s the best question. I think 2+2 should be 4 for a mathematically correct answer. But 2+2 in life may not always be 4. Am I being understandable? Actually, this confused me. 2+2 should be 4!!!?

10. That disaster should not happen. It causes so much hurt, loss, and pain, and all of these words, when experienced in life, make me sometimes think that a hurricane should not happen. But I know that I have to accept the hurricane and do something about it.

I am still wondering how unconditionality and empathy come so easily to you. I am still in the process of making myself believe and practice. It's been years.

I am glad to be a part of the Online Book Club and this forum.
Thank you.

[Sean Pratrick Tracy]

To the second question, the gangmember that killed this boy describe above should not have been a killer because they are not born a killer and are not ultimate killer. Some condition must have made them so.

These things which are listed above are beyond my control as I could not have avert them or prevent them from being like that.

I don't think I can prevent the killing of the boys.

I will say I'll rather accept what I can not change.

If I say so so, I have reason for saying that those things shouldn't which is different from wether I can control it or not.

Hmm! Number 8th question, I won't like to say that what happened in the past should not have happened.

It would be self-deceiving to say 2 plus 2 is not 4.

I won't say it should not have happened, but if killed people, I will say it would have killed persons because no one will see death and willing to die but some would still die.