Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[LuckyR]

Now I have a specific political question having to do with what we've discussed on the pros and cons of gun control and whether society is better off if people can own guns for self defense or whether they can not be trusted because too many nut cases get their hands on guns

I know, and we have shown that this is a debatable question - So let me get more specific to the politics of here and now

Is gun control and the fact that most Democrats are always advocating more gun control, the "Achilles' heel" of the Democratic Party

An other words how many people, often including me, who are otherwise Liberal, do not trust a political party that is trying to disarm them by removing their Second Amendment right to defend themselves Is this weakening the Democratic Party and causing some, possibly even many, people who would otherwise vote Democratic to vote Republican or just not vote at all

What do you think

Well your first error is equating "gun control" with disarming people.

[Lagayascienza]

I'm wondering how one would control guns in the US (and the appalling death rate) without disarming people? Would laws about when and where guns can be carried work, or even make through the various legislatures and the Supreme Court? The stumbling block is the 2nd Amendment and the difficulty of removing it from the Constitution. I can't see how Congress and the red states would never agree to it.

[UniversalAlien]

For what its worth, a few relevant quotes:

“Most gun control arguments miss the point. If all control boils fundamentally to force, how can one resist aggression without equal force? How can a truly “free” state exist if the individual citizen is enslaved to the forceful will of individual or organized aggressors? It cannot.”
― Tiffany Madison

“Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.”
― A.E. Samaan

Mexico has strict gun control. You cannot own a gun in Mexico. Jesse Ventura

And Mexico is controlled by drug cartels that are very well armed - They probably now own Mexico
[Do you still want gun control for the United States }

In 1939, Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, six million Jews and seven million others unable to defend themselves were exterminated. - Joe Wurzelbacher

[Lagayascienza]

For what its worth, a few relevant quotes:

“Most gun control arguments miss the point. If all control boils fundamentally to force, how can one resist aggression without equal force? How can a truly “free” state exist if the individual citizen is enslaved to the forceful will of individual or organized aggressors? It cannot.”
― Tiffany Madison

“Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.”
― A.E. Samaan

Mexico has strict gun control. You cannot own a gun in Mexico. Jesse Ventura

And Mexico is controlled by drug cartels that are very well armed - They probably now own Mexico
[Do you still want gun control for the United States }

In 1939, Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, six million Jews and seven million others unable to defend themselves were exterminated. - Joe Wurzelbacher

We have gun control here in Australia, as do most other civilized nations. No one but the military, the cops, a few sports shooters (who must keep guns securely locked up except when on the shooting range), and the odd crook who gets a gun illegally, is armed. Because guns are not out there in great numbers, we generally we don't need to defend ourselves against them.

Mexico is rather beside the point. Unless you want to point to similarities between Mexico and the USA. Are Americans armed to the teeth for the same reasons Mexican drug gangs are?

I don't know what the gun laws were like in Germany prior to the Nazis taking over but I doubt it would have made much difference. The people voted for the Nazis.

The person with the best chance of getting guns under control in the USA would be Trump after becoming dictator. He'd just abolish the Constitution along with its 2nd amendment. Simple.

[Pattern-chaser]

Now I have a specific political question having to do with what we've discussed on the pros and cons of gun control and whether society is better off if people can own guns for self defense or whether they can not be trusted because too many nut cases get their hands on guns

I know, and we have shown that this is a debatable question - So let me get more specific to the politics of here and now

Is gun control and the fact that most Democrats are always advocating more gun control, the "Achilles' heel" of the Democratic Party

An other words how many people, often including me, who are otherwise Liberal, do not trust a political party that is trying to disarm them by removing their Second Amendment right to defend themselves Is this weakening the Democratic Party and causing some, possibly even many, people who would otherwise vote Democratic to vote Republican or just not vote at all

What do you think

"Defend themselves" against who or what? What enemy is there that they need guns to protect themselves? If the enemy comes from another country, you have the most fearsome war machine that humanity has ever assembled, at your service. And the people who live in the US are ... Americans. You shouldn't need guns to defend yourselves from your own countrymen, should you?

"Defend themselves" against who or what?

[LuckyR]

Now I have a specific political question having to do with what we've discussed on the pros and cons of gun control and whether society is better off if people can own guns for self defense or whether they can not be trusted because too many nut cases get their hands on guns

I know, and we have shown that this is a debatable question - So let me get more specific to the politics of here and now

Is gun control and the fact that most Democrats are always advocating more gun control, the "Achilles' heel" of the Democratic Party

An other words how many people, often including me, who are otherwise Liberal, do not trust a political party that is trying to disarm them by removing their Second Amendment right to defend themselves Is this weakening the Democratic Party and causing some, possibly even many, people who would otherwise vote Democratic to vote Republican or just not vote at all

What do you think

"Defend themselves" against who or what? What enemy is there that they need guns to protect themselves? If the enemy comes from another country, you have the most fearsome war machine that humanity has ever assembled, at your service. And the people who live in the US are ... Americans. You shouldn't need guns to defend yourselves from your own countrymen, should you?

"Defend themselves" against who or what?

Black and brown youths, if you read between the lines of arms manufacturer's advertising. If you don't believe me ask Trayvon Martin's family.

[UniversalAlien]

interesting statistics:

CDC
National Center for Health Statistics [2021]

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 48,830
Deaths per 100,000 population: 14.7

Mortality: Drug overdose/drug poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 106,699
Deaths per 100,000 population: 32.1

Number of drug overdose deaths involving any opioid: 80,411
Drug overdose deaths involving any opioid per 100,000 population: 24.2

Would be interesting to see a statistic on just how many gun deaths are related to drug and/or alcohol use

[Pattern-chaser]

Now I have a specific political question having to do with what we've discussed on the pros and cons of gun control and whether society is better off if people can own guns for self defense or whether they can not be trusted because too many nut cases get their hands on guns

I know, and we have shown that this is a debatable question - So let me get more specific to the politics of here and now

Is gun control and the fact that most Democrats are always advocating more gun control, the "Achilles' heel" of the Democratic Party

An other words how many people, often including me, who are otherwise Liberal, do not trust a political party that is trying to disarm them by removing their Second Amendment right to defend themselves Is this weakening the Democratic Party and causing some, possibly even many, people who would otherwise vote Democratic to vote Republican or just not vote at all

What do you think

"Defend themselves" against who or what? What enemy is there that they need guns to protect themselves? If the enemy comes from another country, you have the most fearsome war machine that humanity has ever assembled, at your service. And the people who live in the US are ... Americans. You shouldn't need guns to defend yourselves from your own countrymen, should you?

"Defend themselves" against who or what?

Black and brown youths, if you read between the lines of arms manufacturer's advertising. If you don't believe me ask Trayvon Martin's family.

So the purpose of these killing-tools is to shoot unarmed and harmless individuals, offering no threat, because you're a bit scared of what they might do to you? Americans.

[Samana Johann]

Who ever approves harm and killing, offers even means for such, actually has to bare the same fruit of action as one who does bodily himself or orders to be done.

Just demo-crazy...

[LuckyR]

Now I have a specific political question having to do with what we've discussed on the pros and cons of gun control and whether society is better off if people can own guns for self defense or whether they can not be trusted because too many nut cases get their hands on guns

I know, and we have shown that this is a debatable question - So let me get more specific to the politics of here and now

Is gun control and the fact that most Democrats are always advocating more gun control, the "Achilles' heel" of the Democratic Party

An other words how many people, often including me, who are otherwise Liberal, do not trust a political party that is trying to disarm them by removing their Second Amendment right to defend themselves Is this weakening the Democratic Party and causing some, possibly even many, people who would otherwise vote Democratic to vote Republican or just not vote at all

What do you think

"Defend themselves" against who or what? What enemy is there that they need guns to protect themselves? If the enemy comes from another country, you have the most fearsome war machine that humanity has ever assembled, at your service. And the people who live in the US are ... Americans. You shouldn't need guns to defend yourselves from your own countrymen, should you?

"Defend themselves" against who or what?

Black and brown youths, if you read between the lines of arms manufacturer's advertising. If you don't believe me ask Trayvon Martin's family.

So the purpose of these killing-tools is to shoot unarmed and harmless individuals, offering no threat, because you're a bit scared of what they might do to you? Americans.

No, no, no. It's to kill extremely scary and dangerous criminal semi humans who are out to steal "our" way of life and replace it with their jungle culture. Thus it's about defending (culture) not offense.

[LuckyR]

Who ever approves harm and killing, offers even means for such, actually has to bare the same fruit of action as one who does bodily himself or orders to be done.

Just demo-crazy...

An uncommon, though internally logical opinion. Typically from a source unfamiliar with personal experience with violence.

[Samana Johann]

Who ever approves harm and killing, offers even means for such, actually has to bare the same fruit of action as one who does bodily himself or orders to be done.

Just demo-crazy...

An uncommon, though internally logical opinion. Typically from a source unfamiliar with personal experience with violence.

Typical source from people knowing the world from media. My person sleeps next the most venom snakes, next to soldiers in remote forest.

Simply demo-crazy and no idea of life and reasons...

[Samana Johann]

Thinking foolish is actually more heavy kamma as acting foolish. But go on and kill each other if thinking that will bring anything painful to an end (of course it would just increase the turning of the wheel). Raised as demo-nihilist is really a misery, and nobody should ever deserve such, yet beings are hire of their action (having way of thinking as it's root).

[Pattern-chaser]

So the purpose of these killing-tools is to shoot unarmed and harmless individuals, offering no threat, because you're a bit scared of what they might do to you? Americans.

No, no, no. It's to kill extremely scary and dangerous criminal semi humans who are out to steal "our" way of life and replace it with their jungle culture. Thus it's about defending (culture) not offense.

Ah. My mistake.

America, home of the brave. And the cultured?

[LuckyR]

Who ever approves harm and killing, offers even means for such, actually has to bare the same fruit of action as one who does bodily himself or orders to be done.

Just demo-crazy...

An uncommon, though internally logical opinion. Typically from a source unfamiliar with personal experience with violence.

Typical source from people knowing the world from media. My person sleeps next the most venom snakes, next to soldiers in remote forest.

Simply demo-crazy and no idea of life and reasons...

Uummm... venomous snakes have nothing to do with violence. Tell us more about these soldiers, are they a (violent) threat? Are they a source of protection from violence?

Kind of difficult to follow your train of thought, but willing to give you a break.