Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Mo_reese]

It is not a genocide. Most of the deaths have been Hamas militants due to surgical strikes. While not perfect, the vast majority of deaths have been terrorists.

South Sudan is at risk of genocide, Palestine is just undergoing a disaster of Hamas's design.

What Israel is doing in Gaza meets 6 out of 7 of the US government criteria of genocide.

But no matter how you define it, Israel has committed hundreds of cases of every kind of crime against humanity. Killing journalists, doctors, nurses, first responders and children. Driving tanks over rubble to kill those trapped beneath and running over live people with tanks. Using snipers to shoot children. These victims aren't accidental collateral damage when the IDF brag about deliberately killing them. Israel officials have said that all Palestinians in Gaza are Hamas, even the babies. This is their justification to exterminate them all. Even if that were true that they were Hamas, it still doesn't justify the crimes against humanity.

We can expect the death toll to climb now that the IDF has herded the Palestinians into area from which they can not escape and then cutting off their water and food supplies in order to starve them all to death.

Is there a number of deaths that you would think too much?

Why don't you and other care about Sudan, which is worse?

Are you saying that Arab people will disappear due to Israel?

There are lots of issues that I don't follow. It's not because I don't care about those issues but because I can't follow all issues.

I am particularly upset about the US spending much needed tax dollars on backing Ukraine and Israel and ignoring the needs of the people of the US. I am also upset about the US government being under the spell of Israel, bought by huge, so-called "campaign donations" and subsequently backing the obvious crimes being committed against humanity (the Palestinians people).

Now that we get nearer to the election we are starting to see the Biden Admin and their pet media starting to turn against Bibi as if we have no responsibility in this disaster.

I am not antisemitic but anti-genocide.

[Sy Borg]

It is not a genocide. Most of the deaths have been Hamas militants due to surgical strikes. While not perfect, the vast majority of deaths have been terrorists.

South Sudan is at risk of genocide, Palestine is just undergoing a disaster of Hamas's design.

What Israel is doing in Gaza meets 6 out of 7 of the US government criteria of genocide.

But no matter how you define it, Israel has committed hundreds of cases of every kind of crime against humanity. Killing journalists, doctors, nurses, first responders and children. Driving tanks over rubble to kill those trapped beneath and running over live people with tanks. Using snipers to shoot children. These victims aren't accidental collateral damage when the IDF brag about deliberately killing them. Israel officials have said that all Palestinians in Gaza are Hamas, even the babies. This is their justification to exterminate them all. Even if that were true that they were Hamas, it still doesn't justify the crimes against humanity.

We can expect the death toll to climb now that the IDF has herded the Palestinians into area from which they can not escape and then cutting off their water and food supplies in order to starve them all to death.

Is there a number of deaths that you would think too much?

Why don't you and other care about Sudan, which is worse?

Are you saying that Arab people will disappear due to Israel?

There are lots of issues that I don't follow. It's not because I don't care about those issues but because I can't follow all issues.

I am particularly upset about the US spending much needed tax dollars on backing Ukraine and Israel and ignoring the needs of the people of the US. I am also upset about the US government being under the spell of Israel, bought by huge, so-called "campaign donations" and subsequently backing the obvious crimes being committed against humanity (the Palestinians people).

Now that we get nearer to the election we are starting to see the Biden Admin and their pet media starting to turn against Bibi as if we have no responsibility in this disaster.

I am not antisemitic but anti-genocide.

If you are against genocide, then you will oppose this latest Islamic attempt to destroy the nation o Israel, once again scattering Jews around the globe (except in Islamic countries, where Jewish population were already purged in events that you would describe as "genocide"). If you are against genocide, why are you not up in arms about South Sudan, which is experiencing a real genocide, not the Arabs' "media genocide".

Were you upset with the US government invading Iraq? Were you upset with Russia for invading Ukraine? Were you upset with Hamas' unprovoked attack, designed to prevent an Israel/Saudi deal, killing over a thousand and kidnapping hundred more, that started this conflagration?

[Mo_reese]

United Nations’ issues a report on Israel's attacks on Palestinian territories

There are “reasonable grounds” to believe Israel is “committing the crime of genocide against the Palestinians as a group in Gaza,” the United Nations’ Special Rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories has said.
Francesca Albanese made the remarks Wednesday following the submission of her latest report called “Anatomy of a Genocide” to the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva on Monday.
Speaking at a press conference, Albanese said: “Israel has committed three acts of genocide with a requisite intent: killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, and deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.”
Ms. Albanese said that officials at every level of Israeli government have made statements that show intent to eliminate the Palestinians from Gaza.

She said there had been “flagrant and systematic slaughter of Palestinian civilians,” as well as “the deployment of unlawful weaponry, the utter obliteration of vital civilian infrastructure including the deliberate targeting of all Gaza’s hospitals, and the man-made starvation of the Palestinian people.”

US State Dept spokesperson Mat Miller responded, not by countering the facts of the report but by...........wait for it...........labeling the author, Ms. Albanese as an antisemitic.

Ms. Albanese has reported to be getting death threats. What I don't understand is that Israeli officials have been very outspoken about their intents regarding the goal of ridding Gaza of Palestinians which meets the UN definition of genocide so why threaten Ms. Albanese when she just reports on what she has seen and heard?

[Sy Borg]

No, it's not genocide. There may be some war crimes but it's not genocide. That's a deliberate misrepresentation by a UN that is full of anti-Semitism. I would say that the UN's major aim for the last few decades ha been to curtail Israel. They have largely ignored much more intense problems around the world because they have reached a critical a threshold of Israel-hating Arab members (which was always the intent of Arab members). The UN is corrupted.

Francesca Albanese is famous for her extreme hatred of Jews and Israel, so it's no surprise that you use her as a reference. She has been gunning for Israel for years. There is a long history there. She has ZERO credibility.

[popeye1945]

If it looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck and tastes to one's sensibilities and reasoning like a duck, it's a **** duck!

[Sy Borg]

The genocide of the Uyghurs carries the hallmarks of genocide. But no one cares, no one minds. Even the Palestinian leadership gave their blessing to the destruction of the Uyghur culture and ethnicity. That's not an attack on China but pointing out the double (or more) standards.

The UN, of course, showed far less interest in China's deeds than in the endless battle between Israel and Palestine, which the UN's bias and corruption has helped to draw out.

[popeye1945]

The genocide of the Uyghurs carries the hallmarks of genocide. But no one cares, no one minds. Even the Palestinian leadership gave their blessing to the destruction of the Uyghur culture and ethnicity. That's not an attack on China but pointing out the double (or more) standards.

The UN, of course, showed far less interest in China's deeds than in the endless battle between Israel and Palestine, which the UN's bias and corruption has helped to draw out.

DUCK ANYONE!

[Sy Borg]

The genocide of the Uyghurs carries the hallmarks of genocide. But no one cares, no one minds. Even the Palestinian leadership gave their blessing to the destruction of the Uyghur culture and ethnicity. That's not an attack on China but pointing out the double (or more) standards.

The UN, of course, showed far less interest in China's deeds than in the endless battle between Israel and Palestine, which the UN's bias and corruption has helped to draw out.

DUCK ANYONE!

Hypocrisy abounds ...

https://uyghurtimes.com/palestine-suppo ... st-israel/

In the joint statement, china’s core interests that Palestine must support include supporting China’s genocide against Uyghurs and other Muslim ethnic people in occupied Uyghurstan.

In the statement, the Palestinian Authority said issues regarding China’s policy toward Muslims in Xinjiang have “nothing to do with human rights and are aimed at excising extremism and opposing terrorism and separatism.”

“Palestine resolutely opposes using the Xinjiang problem as a way of interfering in China’s internal affairs,” the joint statement said.

Associated Press said: “China has campaigned furiously to counter the outside criticism, and in the competition for resources and markets, Arab states have almost never openly expressed concern over Beijing’s treatment of Muslims.”

China has been supporting Palestine at the United Nations against Israel and the United States, creating an image of supporting oppressed nations against oppressors and benefiting from the anti-West sentiment among Arab and Muslim countries.

... Uyghur organizations accused Abbas and his leadership of being complicit in China’s genocide and anti-Islam policies

[Mo_reese]

Those that support Israel's actions against the Palestinian people use the Hamas attack on Oct 7, as justification for their extreme actions claiming the attack was unprovoked.

Prior to Oct. 7, however, there were many instances that can be considered provocation.

> Since Israel was established they have continued to expand their claim on territories. This is seen as provocation by the Palestinian people.

> Israel's continued settlement expansion in the West Bank is viewed by many international observers and Palestinians as a provocation and a significant barrier to peace. These settlements are considered illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this.

> Israeli security forces conduct raids and operations in the West Bank and, Gaza, aiming to deter or respond to terrorism. These operations sometimes result in civilian casualties or significant property damage. Approx 5,000 Palestinians were being held in Israeli prison prior to Oct. 7 and thousands more today.

> The Israeli-Egyptian blockade of Gaza, intended to prevent Hamas from acquiring military capabilities, has been in place since 2007. The blockade restricts the movement of goods and people in and out of Gaza, leading to significant humanitarian issues. It is often cited by Palestinians and human rights organizations as a form of collective punishment.

> Incidents at or restrictions on access to Jerusalem's holy sites, especially the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound, a site revered by both Muslims and Jews.

Both Israel and Palestine have a right to defend themselves, but Israel has gone way beyond merely defense. Their words and actions show a clear intent to clear Gaza of Palestinians which is a crime against humanity.

[Sy Borg]

Mo, there is no response that Israel could have made that would have been accepted by the world, other than accepting the attack with retaliating and asking for more. Prominent UN anti-Semite, Francesca Albanese, went on record straight after the attack to say that Israel had no right whatsoever to any kind of military response, only a policing response ... to missile attacks from a neighbouring state!

Israel has no right of self defence, and that is why people are complaining. They cannot accept Israel's continued existence. After seventy years of attacks and all signs pointing to escalation, Israel is indeed only defending itself. It is trying to end this once and for all. It needs Hamas to be gone to be safe. The Missle East needs Hamas gone to stabilise. There is a reason why Muslim countries won't accept Palestinian refugees. They have been so shaped by Hamas propaganda that they are a security hazard.

There are other reasons, eg. Egypt's crippling overpopulation, but the primary reason is that most are Shias who loathe Hamas Sunni extremists, and only publicly support them because they hate Jews even more.

[Sy Borg]

Douglas Murray makes clear that many of the claims about Israel are dodgy, including false claims of genocide, despite the fact that Palestinian populations have been rising far more quickly than the global average:

[Consul]

Why does Israel keep on fighting in the Gaza Strip? Because Hamas still refuses to raise the white flag! Hamas could thereby stop the suffering of the Palestinian civilians at any time, but they just don't care!

[Mo_reese]

Why does Israel keep on fighting in the Gaza Strip? Because Hamas still refuses to raise the white flag! Hamas could thereby stop the suffering of the Palestinian civilians at any time, but they just don't care!

How can Hamas surrender? Israel officials have made it clear that all Gaza Palestinians are Hamas. So what if 1,000 people came forward as Hamas and surrendered? Israel wouldn't accept that and stop the bombing. How many do they want? Israel already has about 10,000 locked up in prisons. They can't lock up a million people so they are going to starve them to death. That's genocide.
Besides Israel wants this genocide. They have said over and over that their goal is and has been to eliminate all Palestinians from Gaza. That's defined as genocide.
I don't believe for a minute that Israel with the help of the US intelligence services and technologies didn't know that Hamas was going to attack on Oct 7. They were warned repeatedly but they stood down for hours after the attack started. Also how many of the IDF deaths on Oct 7 were from IDF soldiers following The Hannibal Directive to kill IDF soldiers that are at risk of being taken hostage?
And let's not forget that we've seen video of IDF shooting and killing Palestinians that were surrendering.

[popeye1945]

The West in general is indulging in the genocide of Palestine, It has no moral high ground from which to judge others. Even the citizens of the West cannot avoid in their heart of hearts acknowledging the monstrous war machine built around America called Isreal and NATO. Any further pretense of humanitarian motivations is seen for what it is, naked barbarism. This is not exactly a surprise to much of the world and their reactions to it bring a turmoil of change and a fight to end colonialism. The fat stealing a hungry man's dinner, BURP!

[Sy Borg]

There is no genocide. While the claims of genocide have continued for decades, the fact is that the Palestinian postulation have grown considerably faster than the Israeli population, and this trend has continued up to now. In genocides, people are killed off rather than allowed to proliferate as much as they want.

This is a matter of people repeating a blatant falsehood until it's simply accepted as fact.

All Hamas had to do is return the hostages, but all this anti-Israel publicity is exactly the point of this war. People are blaming Israel for helping implement Hamas's strategy. The Hamas leaders need not worry. They will always be wealthy and safe thanks to their theft of western aid money.