Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sy Borg]

Because there's too many of us and not enough of most other species.

That's kind of what I mean. Trophy hunters are celebrated: Super rich men, such as the adult children of Donald Trump, who literally fly overseas and pay tens of thousands of dollars to corrupt foreign government bureaucrats so they can obtain permits to kill sometimes endangered animals.

These guys receive congratulations...As I suggested above in the post, it takes the expression "going out of your way to kill something" to a whole new level. Even still, there are likely people who disapprove of me stepping on ants for no reason even though they will never be endangered...but would condone (or perhaps even celebrate) the killing of the above mammals. The two pictured above have even kill elephants, rhinoceroses, and rare species of mountain goats. Makes you think. :razz:

Not surprising from today's Corleones, sadly.

[Tegularius]

I would leave it alone. Just because I had absolute power does not cause or obligate me to use any of it. I'd call that my Prime Directive. Why should power always be used against those less powerful?

Because it can be! That is part of the appeal -- at least to me. Using power on the similarly powerful is likely to fall flat.

Power is best applied by those who don't possess any of the vulgar ambitions humans normally possess to rule and force others. An alien civilization is none of my business if it doesn't intrude in mine.

The tiny alien civilization not intruding would sort of be irrelevant because they couldn't if they wanted to. What matters is whether you decide to intrude upon theirs and in what manner. Imagine today how satisfying it would if you had the power to instantly crush or cow anybody who pissed you off. Any friend who insulted you, any rival you've ever had; cowering at the sight of you and who you could obliterate under one fingertip or add to a tiny bottle of personal slaves inside your pocket.

...in that case, if it happened to us humans by an invading alien species whose intent it is to clear the planet of us then, by the same logic, we shouldn't have anything to complain about since THEY are only doing what WE would be doing and have done. Of course, most of the human crap on the planet would pray to their god or gods to save them from such inhuman monsters. If something like that really did happen, the majority would turn into quivering wimps imploring some almighty power to save them.

Actually, much of your post describes quite accurately how human history itself unfolded. It would be quite logical and not totally unjust for another life form in light of that to regard us as pure vermin and begin the process of dispensing with the thoroughly dispensable.

[Tegularius]

...but I wouldn't need to be an alien to completely dispense with these guys. What can one expect from Trump junk DNA?

[Thrylix]

Interesting to say that you would be “an evil kid crouching over an anthill all over again” yet you think it’s problematic when the victims are mammals.

Why would that be interesting? They're just ants. When I step on them, it's a spontaneous act. I don't go out looking for them. When I see them though, sometimes I just mess with them. To kill fish and mammals is pretty different. People who sport fish literally plan ahead, prepare for, and travel long distances to go and do something that they are fully aware will injure and can potentially kill. It's quite literally going out of your way to harm something. There is long term planning and time investment that goes into recreational fishing, there are gears turning in the person head, they actually look forward to it. Think about that... even if the people aren't cruel-minded, their commitment to an activity that hurts significantly more complex animals than bugs seems to be. What is the intent? I'm not saying bug squashers and sport fishermen don't sometimes overlap. But I'm critical of how one activity is embraced while the other one is written off as immature or cruel.

And that's to say nothing of the people who travel overseas to trophy hunt elephants or other intelligent animals. That elevates "going out of your way to kill something" to a whole new level. Some people have been critical of me because I admit to stepping on bugs for no real reason. But I wonder if they compared what I do to ants to other activities that for some reason get a stamp of approval.

The point I was making was that you have no problem being a giant and stomping on tiny humans yet you are against animals, even those much less complex than humans, being harmed and I don’t know why that is.

If we discovered the bacteria living on our skin were intelligent as humans with thoughts and feelings, would we stop killing them by the millions when we washed our hands? Pragmatism over principle. I'm a sizeist, and the chance to play god would be too much of a sweet deal to pass up.
Besides, who's to say the tiny people wouldn't thrive under my rule. Adversity can be character building.

Also, animals are innocent. The tiny people would likely be full of hubris and vice.

[runaway]

Interesting to say that you would be “an evil kid crouching over an anthill all over again” yet you think it’s problematic when the victims are mammals.

Why would that be interesting? They're just ants. When I step on them, it's a spontaneous act. I don't go out looking for them. When I see them though, sometimes I just mess with them. To kill fish and mammals is pretty different. People who sport fish literally plan ahead, prepare for, and travel long distances to go and do something that they are fully aware will injure and can potentially kill. It's quite literally going out of your way to harm something. There is long term planning and time investment that goes into recreational fishing, there are gears turning in the person head, they actually look forward to it. Think about that... even if the people aren't cruel-minded, their commitment to an activity that hurts significantly more complex animals than bugs seems to be. What is the intent? I'm not saying bug squashers and sport fishermen don't sometimes overlap. But I'm critical of how one activity is embraced while the other one is written off as immature or cruel.

And that's to say nothing of the people who travel overseas to trophy hunt elephants or other intelligent animals. That elevates "going out of your way to kill something" to a whole new level. Some people have been critical of me because I admit to stepping on bugs for no real reason. But I wonder if they compared what I do to ants to other activities that for some reason get a stamp of approval.

The point I was making was that you have no problem being a giant and stomping on tiny humans yet you are against animals, even those much less complex than humans, being harmed and I don’t know why that is.

If we discovered the bacteria living on our skin were intelligent as humans with thoughts and feelings, would we stop killing them by the millions when we washed our hands? Pragmatism over principle. I'm a sizeist, and the chance to play god would be too much of a sweet deal to pass up.
Besides, who's to say the tiny people wouldn't thrive under my rule. Adversity can be character building.

Also, animals are innocent. The tiny people would likely be full of hubris and vice.

You make a good point with the bacteria comparison. I suppose if you found a tiny civilisation that was that insignificant I can see why you would play God. The people in that civilisation would be nothing in size compared to you so in that sense you would be justified in walking over them with your giant feet. I can also see how being a cruel giant to the civilisation of bug-sized people could be fun for you becuase it would be interesting to see how they would react and you could make them do anything you wanted. What would have the tiny people do for you if you were ever in such a position of power?

[Thrylix]

As I stated, I would take advantage of their resources and labor to sustain me. Maybe I could help them with construction at same time to facilitate that. Plus, I do have male sexual needs... and taking advantage of the situation to some extent would be pretty hard for a guy like me to pass up. I could probably think of a a few ways... one would probably take most of the ladies in their community "pulling together." (burn that mental image.)

For me the appeal is not solely about what they can do for me. The perhaps greater attraction for me is the ability to command and force them into doing what I want, or else I crush them. An entire race of intelligent beings to taunt, toy with, or just use as a focus for my frustration at any time is something I would sink my teeth into.

[kilobug]

I think Thyrlix is totally right in that people will be corrupt with power

[LuckyR]

I think Thyrlix is totally right in that people will be corrupt with power

Everyone needs to feel important. Many fulfill that already, others need to step on "ants" to accomplish it. Sad, really.

[Good_Egg]

The perhaps greater attraction for me is the ability to command and force them into doing what I want, or else I crush them.

That's evil.

[Sy Borg]

Fun to revisit this one. I now know exactly what I'd do with absolute power. I would delegate all the work to people I trusted, and continue pottering around at home.

[Good_Egg]

Fun to revisit this one. I now know exactly what I'd do with absolute power. I would delegate all the work to people I trusted, and continue pottering around at home.

If you had absolute power, you wouldn't know who to trust as your deputies.

Except, perhaps, those whom you had come to trust before you achieved power. Just like all those nepotistic politicians who appoint their family and cronies...

Because there's an incompatibility between power-relationships and mutual-trust relationships. Between love and fear.

[Sy Borg]

Fun to revisit this one. I now know exactly what I'd do with absolute power. I would delegate all the work to people I trusted, and continue pottering around at home.

If you had absolute power, you wouldn't know who to trust as your deputies.

Except, perhaps, those whom you had come to trust before you achieved power. Just like all those nepotistic politicians who appoint their family and cronies...

Because there's an incompatibility between power-relationships and mutual-trust relationships. Between love and fear.

Why would I need "loyal" delegates? Loyal to what? My garden?

Loyalty is only needed by those wielding power. I would not need their loyalty to help me potter at home.

[chewybrian]

Fun to revisit this one. I now know exactly what I'd do with absolute power. I would delegate all the work to people I trusted, and continue pottering around at home.

That's a good framework for action without details of what actions you would delegate. I'd tell my minions to do good things, make useful things, create a just world, protect the world for future generations... you know, just the simple stuff.

I do share your desire to kick back. I'd even do some gardening as well. That's the thing people like Trump can never seem to do. They don't seem to enjoy all they have, except as a vehicle for showing off. The only thing they can never have is enough.

[Sy Borg]

Fun to revisit this one. I now know exactly what I'd do with absolute power. I would delegate all the work to people I trusted, and continue pottering around at home.

That's a good framework for action without details of what actions you would delegate. I'd tell my minions to do good things, make useful things, create a just world, protect the world for future generations... you know, just the simple stuff.

I do share your desire to kick back. I'd even do some gardening as well. That's the thing people like Trump can never seem to do. They don't seem to enjoy all they have, except as a vehicle for showing off. The only thing they can never have is enough.

I would be more than happy to have Trump's confidence, drive, power, perseverance, resilience and cunning. If everyone was a leaf-raking, dog-walking recluse like me, nothing would get done. I have enough trouble managing myself, let alone managing society or world (though our current leaders don't have a clue either, and are obviously bluffing). My only knocks on Trump are his dishonesty and Dunning-Kruger tendencies.

While politicians are dicey blighters that I would trust as far as I could throw, they are impressive hominids who will steamroller you if you get in their way. Modern human silverbacks.

I don't know what to ask my minions. Every action has so many knock-on effects. "Let's improve the welfare system" soon becomes "What do we do about the welfare trap and cycles of poverty?". Likewise, "Let's go green" leads to a rash of heavy manufacturing (powered by coal) in China to satisfy the west's demands for "green" products. "Let's be broad-minded and multicultural" ends up as governments boosting GDP with mass immigration and accusing those impacted by the crush loading as "racist". "Let's support the underdog" in general ends up rewarding people for screwing up.

It's probably far beyond human analytical capacities to understand the best forms of governance in large, complex societies, hence thousands of years of argy bargy. Leadership today looks to me like juggling too many plates and trying not to break too many. They know it's more than they can handle. All they have to do is hold everything together with some Perkins paste and old shoelaces and hope the system break, given that our systems always seem to be on the edge of disaster, like racing cars, where each moment is a potential disaster should a bad enough mistake be made.

I am hoping that quality AI will help politicians make better decisions and be more accountable.

[Sy Borg]

Fun to revisit this one. I now know exactly what I'd do with absolute power. I would delegate all the work to people I trusted, and continue pottering around at home.

That's a good framework for action without details of what actions you would delegate. I'd tell my minions to do good things, make useful things, create a just world, protect the world for future generations... you know, just the simple stuff.

I do share your desire to kick back. I'd even do some gardening as well. That's the thing people like Trump can never seem to do. They don't seem to enjoy all they have, except as a vehicle for showing off. The only thing they can never have is enough.

I would be more than happy to have Trump's confidence, drive, power, perseverance, resilience and cunning. If everyone was a leaf-raking, dog-walking recluse like me, nothing would get done. I have enough trouble managing myself, let alone managing society or world (though our current leaders don't seem to have a clue either, and are obviously bluffing). My only knocks on Trump are his dishonesty and his tendencies towards Dunning-Kruger and organised crime.

While politicians are dicey blighters that I would trust as far as I could throw, they are impressive hominids who will steamroller you if you get in their way. Modern human silverbacks.

I wouldn't know what to ask my minions to do. Every action has so many knock-on effects.

"Let's improve the welfare system" soon becomes "What do we do about the welfare trap and cycles of poverty?".

"Let's go green" leads to a rash of heavy manufacturing (powered by coal) in China to satisfy the west's demands for "green" products.

"Let's be broad-minded and multicultural" ends up as governments boosting GDP with mass immigration and accusing those impacted by the crush loading as "racist".

"Let's support the underdog" in general ends up rewarding people for mistakes and poor behaviour.

It's probably far beyond human analytical capacities to understand the best forms of governance in large, complex societies, hence the thousands of years of argy bargy. Leadership today looks to me like juggling too many plates and trying not to break too many. All they have to do is hold the mess together with Perkins paste and old shoelaces and hope the system doesn't break during their tenure. Our systems tend to exist on the edge of disaster, like racing cars, with each moment a potential catastrophe should a bad enough mistake be made.

I am hoping that quality AI will help politicians make better decisions and be more accountable in the future.