Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Clearide]

"When it shall be said in any country in the world 'my poor are happy, neither ignorance nor distress is to be found amoung them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want; the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am the friend of its happiness'; when these things can be said, then may that country boast its constitution and its government." Welfare, health insurance, public education, social security and a graduated income tax were all part of Thomas Paines founding vision for America.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

Great quote, Clearide!

It's interesting how the points I make about government spending and the influence of the wealthy special interests who profit from ever increasing government spending contribute to the problems Paine mentions. For instance, consider the prison industrial complex and the expensive war on drugs. Consider the way it benefits the wealthy special interests getting the dough spent by government and benefits the politicians and government officials getting kickbacks from the special interests to spend more and more money on a war on poverty in ways that don't actually eradicate poverty but maintain or even exacerbate the problem. It'd be terrible business for the government and special interests to actually solve these problems. They need an excuse for increased spending. More spending, more problems; it's just good business sense... for the elite few running the show, that is.

[Clearide]

I couldn't agree with your thoughts more. Paine also said "The most extravagant idea that can be born in the head of a political thinker is to believe that it suffices for people to enter, weapons in hand, among a foreign people and expect to have its laws and constitution embraced. No one loves armed missionaries."

-- Updated Wed May 23, 2012 1:23 pm to add the following --

Buckminster Fuller maintained, eloquently, that we have the power to think about and understand where we live, and ultimately to organize the materials of our world so that there is plenty for all of us, even for more of us if we intelligently decide that's what we want.

[Belinda]

Clearide,#31, what Thomas Paine said should be shouted from the rooftops and from all the newspapers and all the pulpits.

[Harry]

Nice Post. Thanks for sharing it........................

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[Ser10Rec1pr0]

...Paine also said " ...No one loves armed missionaries."

Buckminster Fuller maintained, eloquently, that we have the power to think about and understand where we live, and ultimately to organize the materials of our world so that there is plenty for all of us, even for more of us if we intelligently decide that's what we want.

...what Thomas Paine said should be shouted from the rooftops ...

Despite his being a "hero" of the Am. Revolution & eminently quotable, what he said was not shouted from the rooftops; in fact, the "armed missionaries" are the full content of Am. forn. policy & have been since, oh, maybe, Bay of Pigs? Maybe since the Maine was sunk?

Maybe the exchange should turn to how guys like Paine & Fuller can be so lovingly quoted by some & so cruelly dismissed by others. Is it possible that we are encouraged to cite "Founding Fathers" as a bulwark against the 180-deg turn away from those ideas the officers of the nation have made?

As for gov. spending, this seems another occasion alerting us to the "clear & present danger" (the phrase was Justice Holmes's) which is now clear but probably no longer present (at least not that phase of it). Had President Eisenhower announced during the 1960 election that a pending war w/ Cuba would "practically pay for itself," Nixon AND Kennedy woulda demanded his arrest; 40+ yr Pres. Bush makes that statement about OIF & normally bright, skeptical people were preparing editorials & entire books on how that's possible & almost 10 yr hence pending national bankruptcy is the new clear & present danger.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

I originally wrote this article ("The Philosophy of Government Spending") back in 2008 (16 years ago).

And still to this day examples constantly emerge that further prove and re-prove what I wrote, like these facts about Boeing and how it's practically a co-owner of the USA government funded using money stolen from taxpayers via the threat of violence:

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxNnc-iRs_I3 ... UO9TWo8Vzs