Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[lincoy3411]

Now your just playing word games. You introduced the word, "fantastical" not me. But maybe fantastic claims require fantastic evidence.

Actually, you introduced the word fantastical. If you equate fantastical with extraordinary, then I'd have to call that the fallacy of the Principle of Personal Incredulity, a widely recognized fallacy.

[Lagayascienza]

I'm sticking with "extraordinary" which adequately characterises the claims theists make but for which they can.provide no evidence whatsoever.

[Lagayascienza]

And it was you who introduced the word "fantastical".

[Sculptor1]

Let's pretend there is a god for a moment.
Why does god allow evil to exist?
Any answers?

[Lagayascienza]

Yes, that's more or less the question of the OP. I've never seen any answers to the question, that is, I've never seen any theodicy, that actually works.

[Sculptor1]

Yes, that's more or less the question of the OP. I've never seen any answers to the question, that is, I've never seen any theodicy, that actually works.

The answer I usually see is that evil enables us to reflect upon the good. Were there no evol then we would not recognise good. SO god places som evil in the world so that we can reach for the good, recognise the good, and appreciate the good. Becuase god is good.

For me it is just as likely that the complete opposite is true. God is in fact pure evil. That ultimately what ever we do we die in pain and suffering. Even with science to make our deaths easire there is no escpaing the fact that at the moment of our greatest apogee its all the way down we die and eery thing we have strived for is lost.
God makes the world evil and only allows so good so that ultimately we are devastated by the eventual eivl of our death, the loss of our lived ones, the tragedy of illness, decrepitude, decline and dementia.

Theodicy my arze! It's the worst possible of all in the worst possible worlds and having so goood makes us realise that.
For some people he gives them the most wonderful life, but the more wonderful it is the more is the devestation of its end

[Lagayascienza]

Yes, theists have no argument for the problem of evil. The best they can do is claim that their god acts in mysterious ways. But that's no argument at all. It's just blind faith.

[Lagayascienza]

I have some respect for theists who honestly admit that theism cannot be proved, but that they choose to believe in it anyway. What's wrong with owning that? Afterall, atheists admit that they cannot prove that god(s) do not exist. It's just that they see no reason to believe they do exist. But some theists aren't happy with that. The have to tie themselves in metaphysical knots in attempts to prove theism is true and that atheism is illogical, when the reverse is true - atheism is the logical position. There is nothing to indicate that god(s) exist and much to indicate otherwise, and the Cosmological Argument and the various theodicies are all defeasible. So, in respect of the question of the OP, I'd say that the Problem of Evil is highly relevant to the question of God's existence and it is a problem for which theists have no indefeasible answer.

[Count Lucanor]

Afterall, atheists admit that they cannot prove that god(s) do not exist.

Not me. I do demand, however, to be provided with the characteristics of the god that I have to disprove, before disproving it.

[Lagayascienza]

Do you mean like, say, the sun god Ra or the Norse God, Thor?

[Sy Borg]

Spinoza's God is omnipresent and omniscient (since it includes all things and all minds) but it isn't omnipotent.

Then again, Spinoza's god is just the universe with some extra speculations.

[Lagayascienza]

I like Spinoza's god better that the traditional Abrahamic god. For Spinoza, God is just the substance and "the sum of the natural and physical laws of the universe and certainly not an individual entity or creator”(Cannon J A 2009). I also feel sorry for Spinoza because, even though the Amsterdam of his day wasn’t a notably virulent place in terms of antisemitism, Jews there did suffer some level of persecution, and then Spinoza was excommunicated from the Jewish community because of his philosophy. He was accused of atheism and was not even allowed burial in the Jewish cemetery. Then, after his death at just 44, his work was banned by the Dutch authorities and the Roman Catholic Church as well by the Jewish community. Gotta wonder about these theists.

[Count Lucanor]

Do you mean like, say, the sun god Ra or the Norse God, Thor?

Yeah, sure, whatever god anyone wants to advance as a real entity. Not many believers of Ra or Odin these days, but you’ll never know.

[Belindi]

Let's pretend there is a god for a moment.
Why does god allow evil to exist?
Any answers?

If God is the same as Nature, then pain and loss necessarily happen.

If God is like a kindly person then God is not all-powerful; in this connection I read that Messrs Lyle are removing their picture of the dead lion from their Golden Syrup tins presumably as it is now obvious that power does not produce sweetness.

[Sculptor1]

Let's pretend there is a god for a moment.
Why does god allow evil to exist?
Any answers?

If God is the same as Nature, then pain and loss necessarily happen.

Then why call "him" god?

If God is like a kindly person then God is not all-powerful; in this connection I read that Messrs Lyle are removing their picture of the dead lion from their Golden Syrup tins presumably as it is now obvious that power does not produce sweetness.

Or, as I wrote above. God could be good and introduces evil for the sake of contrast. More likely is evil and introduces good for the sake of contrast.

Gee and I always thought that was a sleeping lion!!