Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Lagayascienza]

The may not be "inherent" but religions certainly take measures to enforce conformity. Not so much in the west these days but not so long ago blasphemy was punished in western countries, too, and women's roles were were severely constrained by religious notions of what roles were suitable for them.

[Good_Egg]

The may not be "inherent" but religions certainly take measures to enforce conformity.

All communities exhibit social pressure for conformity with group norms. It's how we evolved monkeys work.

We could perhaps try to have a sensible discussion about how far such social pressure is a good thing and when it becomes oppressive. But that says nothing at all about religion as such.

...women's roles were were severely constrained by religious notions of what roles were suitable for them.

Did Jesus say anything about the role of women ? Did Buddha ?

Is your objection to religion the fact that successful religions become conservative ? That taking a historical figure as a model of one's life is inevitably more attractive to conservatives than to progressives ?

Imagine that in a couple of hundred years' time there's a group with a devotion to MLK. How mocked they will be by progressive opinion, on account of their outdated twentieth-century attitudes. Only the conservatively-inclined will be attracted...

[A Material Girl]

I agree with you.

And I agree with you, too.

[A Material Girl]

Religions certainly take measures to enforce conformity. Not so much in the west these days but not so long ago blasphemy was punished in Western countries, too, and women's roles were severely constrained by religious notions of what roles were suitable for them.

And, nobody & nothing is ever going to even slightly constrain me in my purely hedonistic pursuit of wide varieties of material pleasure and an expensive comfortable and fashionable High Life style.

[Stoppelmann]

Religions certainly take measures to enforce conformity. Not so much in the west these days but not so long ago blasphemy was punished in Western countries, too, and women's roles were severely constrained by religious notions of what roles were suitable for them.

And, nobody & nothing is ever going to even slightly constrain me in my purely hedonistic pursuit of wide varieties of material pleasure and an expensive comfortable and fashionable High Life style.

I hope that you are not confronted with some of those "unfashionable" things that life sometimes throws at us.

[Lagayascienza]

Hedonism is fine. Until you run out of stuff you can enjoy.

[Good_Egg]

nobody & nothing is ever going to even slightly constrain me in my purely hedonistic pursuit of wide varieties of material pleasure and an expensive comfortable and fashionable High Life style.

I take it this is a statement of aspiration.

As a matter of cold, hard fact, ill-health may constrain you, poverty may constrain you, governments may constrain you, etc.

As an aspiration, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be free - unconstrained - to pursue whatever seems to you to be good.

Do you recognise other people as beings like yourself, having the same equally-valid aspiration as your own ? Which might lead you to a ibertarian position, to desire a society in which people are maximally-unconstrained ? Or do you inhabit a mental cosmos describable as "egoist", in which only you and your desires really matter ?

[A Material Girl]

nobody & nothing is ever going to even slightly constrain me in my purely hedonistic pursuit of wide varieties of material pleasure and an expensive comfortable and fashionable High Life style.

I take it this is a statement of aspiration.

As a matter of cold, hard fact, ill-health may constrain you, poverty may constrain you, governments may constrain you, etc.

As an aspiration, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be free - unconstrained - to pursue whatever seems to you to be good.

Do you recognise other people as beings like yourself, having the same equally-valid aspiration as your own ? Which might lead you to a ibertarian position, to desire a society in which people are maximally-unconstrained ? Or do you inhabit a mental cosmos describable as "egoist", in which only you and your desires really matter ?

So far, I have been successful in living as unconstrained life as possible.
I don't aspire to some "absolute freedom" philosophical idea.
My parents are wealthy, and I have wealthy friends only. Is it immoral?

Why would the US government want to know what I do in private?
With my friends, occasionally, we snort a little bit of coke at a party.
But this happens behind closed doors. Is it a crime to have such fun?

Yes, of course, I hang out with like-minded people only,
and I don't worry about the rest of society and the world. And you don't?

[A Material Girl]

I hope that you are not confronted with some of those "unfashionable" things that life sometimes throws at us.

Thank you, Stoppelmann. It is nice of you.

[A Material Girl]

Hedonism is fine. Until you run out of stuff you can enjoy.

It seems to me that you already might have run out of your sruff?

[Good_Egg]

Do you recognise other people as beings like yourself, having the same equally-valid aspiration as your own ? Which might lead you to a ibertarian position, to desire a society in which people are maximally-unconstrained ?

So far, I have been successful in living as unconstrained life as possible.
I don't aspire to some "absolute freedom" philosophical idea.
My parents are wealthy, and I have wealthy friends only. Is it immoral?

If liberty were the topic, there might be mileage in exploring the difference between absolutely free and maximally free. And whether that's an end-in-itself or a means to an end. But it sounds like that's not really where your interests lie.

There are both morally-legitimate and immoral ways of becoming wealthy. But whichever applies, you didn't choose your parents and aren't responsible for their choices.

And you are of course free to choose your friends as you please.

Party on. There are moral constraints, but nothing you've said suggests that you've crossed one of those lines.

Just be aware that if there comes a day when your friends and your stylishness and your parties cease to satisfy, then there are other people and other paths. That others have trod before you; you're not alone.

[Stoppelmann]

So far, I have been successful in living as unconstrained life as possible.
I don't aspire to some "absolute freedom" philosophical idea.
My parents are wealthy, and I have wealthy friends only. Is it immoral?

Why would the US government want to know what I do in private?
With my friends, occasionally, we snort a little bit of coke at a party.
But this happens behind closed doors. Is it a crime to have such fun?

Yes, of course, I hang out with like-minded people only,
and I don't worry about the rest of society and the world. And you don't?

I don't think it immoral, but I think that you misjudge the fact that your wealthy parents are your guarantee for an unconstrained life. I would ask whether you are aware of the effort that has to be applied to gain wealth. Many who inherit wealth fail to understand this.

It is wealth that protects you, but it also isolates you, because you can only have wealthy friends because you need like-minded people around you.

You take cocaine in party settings, and I don't care, so I'm not judgemental, but it has often been the first step in a downward spiral.

I think you will have to be very careful and protect this bubble you are living in because if it bursts, you will have a shock.

[Lagayascienza]

Do you recognise other people as beings like yourself, having the same equally-valid aspiration as your own ? Which might lead you to a ibertarian position, to desire a society in which people are maximally-unconstrained ?

So far, I have been successful in living as unconstrained life as possible.
I don't aspire to some "absolute freedom" philosophical idea.
My parents are wealthy, and I have wealthy friends only. Is it immoral?

If liberty were the topic, there might be mileage in exploring the difference between absolutely free and maximally free. And whether that's an end-in-itself or a means to an end. But it sounds like that's not really where your interests lie.

There are both morally-legitimate and immoral ways of becoming wealthy. But whichever applies, you didn't choose your parents and aren't responsible for their choices.

And you are of course free to choose your friends as you please.

Party on. There are moral constraints, but nothing you've said suggests that you've crossed one of those lines.

Just be aware that if there comes a day when your friends and your stylishness and your parties cease to satisfy, then there are other people and other paths. That others have trod before you; you're not alone.

And that is what I was trying to say when I said that hedonism is fine, until you run out of things to enjoy. At that point, one may need to draw on deeper reasons to go on. So, yeah, party on, have fun. And make your own arrangements for when the partying is over. Just don't expect others to give a damn.

Why do I get the feeling that Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD and A Material Girl are one and the same? Probably just my BS detector being on too fine a trigger. I might need to recalibrate it.

[A Material Girl]

I don't think it immoral, but I think that you misjudge the fact that your wealthy parents are your guarantee for an unconstrained life. I would ask whether you are aware of the effort that has to be applied to gain wealth. Many who inherit wealth fail to understand this.

It is wealth that protects you, but it also isolates you, because you can only have wealthy friends because you need like-minded people around you.

You take cocaine in party settings, and I don't care, so I'm not judgemental, but it has often been the first step in a downward spiral.

I think you will have to be very careful and protect this bubble you are living in because if it bursts, you will have a shock.

Stoppelmann, the above, in essence, is what my mom tells me every Friday during breakfast. Are you a parent?

[Stoppelmann]

I don't think it immoral, but I think that you misjudge the fact that your wealthy parents are your guarantee for an unconstrained life. I would ask whether you are aware of the effort that has to be applied to gain wealth. Many who inherit wealth fail to understand this.

It is wealth that protects you, but it also isolates you, because you can only have wealthy friends because you need like-minded people around you.

You take cocaine in party settings, and I don't care, so I'm not judgemental, but it has often been the first step in a downward spiral.

I think you will have to be very careful and protect this bubble you are living in because if it bursts, you will have a shock.

Stoppelmann, the above, in essence, is what my mom tells me every Friday during breakfast. Are you a parent?

Yes, and it might be wise to listen to your mom.