Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[avaregidor]

This might offer a different way of understanding the role of society and individuals in Buddhism, and perhaps another way of practicing Buddhism worldwide. Instead of seeing society as a hindrance or a distraction from one's own liberation, one might see society as an opportunity or a catalyst for one's own cultivation of compassion and wisdom, and for the benefit of all beings. Instead of seeing oneself as isolated or unrelated to others, one might see oneself as connected and interrelated to others, responsible for their well-being.

[Samana Johann]

This might offer a different way of understanding the role of society and individuals in Buddhism, and perhaps another way of practicing Buddhism worldwide. Instead of seeing society as a hindrance or a distraction from one's own liberation, one might see society as an opportunity or a catalyst for one's own cultivation of compassion and wisdom, and for the benefit of all beings. Instead of seeing oneself as isolated or unrelated to others, one might see oneself as connected and interrelated to others, responsible for their well-being.

Sure, good householder, it's because of being ignorant (= opposite of wisdom) to suffering with relay-tion that one prefers to argue "out of compassion, feed on others, to provide as food". It would be more of compassion (with wisdom, based on wisdom) to really get aware of one's responsibility, aware of using others and own huge sacrifices just for deluded ego-trip.

One with real compassion seeks to pull at least his own cards out of the pointless game. Easier to argue why feeding on others instead of making serious effort to get ride of craving by oneself and then even able to be of any benefit for others in honest and effective terms.

If society is really already an opportunity for good householder and not actually his relay, bond, indebt unable to escape, why not starting to give freedom and harmlessness, compassions three factors: renouncing (sense joy), harmlessness and abstaining from oppositioning?

It "might" be that this dislike toward real compassion is actually very self-centered, right(?).

[Prince Oyedeji Oyeleke Jayeola]

Influences comes in two ways and to some extent I agree with the author that bad influence is one of the great dangers we face as humans. Influence start with the parents(from home) a child would spread to the society the influence the parents had on him/her. If the first contact in the society carries the same influence like the child then it keeps spreading.

[Samana Johann]

Influences comes in two ways and to some extent I agree with the author that bad influence is one of the great dangers we face as humans. Influence start with the parents(from home) a child would spread to the society the influence the parents had on him/her. If the first contact in the society carries the same influence like the child then it keeps spreading.

Parents, like other relay-tions, are not creator of individuals, but just give occasion, space of being, becoming, yet it's total individual where and for what one has gone for, goes on.

But sure, where one tends to, one's preferences grow. Tendentious addiction is what binds. Beings gather together, again and again, on an element. Yet it's possible to go for better relation, possible to renounce, requiring to abond the cause of bond, the addiction.

It's because of the great debt one owes toward parents, as nobody else gave desired, that increasing one's own goodness and give ways to share encouragement toward virtues back, that an individual encounters better, not worse: gratitude, not demand.

Nobody called one to (be)come.

[Sushan]

I think that the author's statement is not meant to imply that one should avoid or ignore the opinions of others, but rather that one should not let them determine or dictate one's identity or choices. I think that the author is trying to convey the idea that being unique means being true to oneself, and not conforming to the expectations or standards of others. I think that the author is also suggesting that being unique is a valuable and desirable quality, as it reflects one's individuality and creativity.

That's a thoughtful interpretation of the author's sentiment, and I respect your viewpoint. I agree that being true to oneself and maintaining one's individuality in the face of societal influences is essential. However, my stance is that influences, both good and bad, can serve as a mirror to an individual's resilience, adaptability, and character. Just like the chef's analogy, these influences can reveal how a person reacts or transforms under pressure. While being unique and authentic is undeniably valuable, it's also the way we respond to these influences that shapes our growth, wisdom, and understanding. The interplay between personal identity and societal influences is indeed a complex and multifaceted one. Would you agree that it's this very dynamic that helps in personal evolution?

[Sushan]

I think that the author's statement is not meant to imply that one should avoid or ignore the opinions of others, but rather that one should not let them determine or dictate one's identity or choices. I think that the author is trying to convey the idea that being unique means being true to oneself, and not conforming to the expectations or standards of others. I think that the author is also suggesting that being unique is a valuable and desirable quality, as it reflects one's individuality and creativity.

Yes, the Sublime Buddha values the maintaining of good relations, society, yet never for the relations or societies sake at least, since actions, gains, liberation, are all individual.

You'd wouldn't really like to become useful for all with relations toward you, at first place, as preferring to consume away and stay right with others in the sink of mud, stepping each other on the head for short gain of some air.

Only one already no more related, depended, (abound sensual desires and gains in the world) is able to help others out, can act as an island for many (who seek such, not for those not).

So importand to know that there are societies heading downwardly and those with some hope, being still related to the Noble Ones.

Thank you for introducing a Buddhist perspective (again ) into this dialogue. Your mention of the Sublime Buddha and the distinction between societies heading downwardly and those still related to the Noble Ones provides a profound lens to approach the topic. The idea of detaching oneself from worldly desires to genuinely help others brings an essential dimension to our discussion on influences.

Your analogy about being in the mud and stepping on each other's heads for a short gain of air is striking. It vividly illustrates how, when overwhelmed by negative influences or short-term desires, individuals might act against their better judgement.

However, my original point stands: influences, be they positive or negative, offer opportunities for individuals to reflect, grow, and determine their path. The story I shared earlier demonstrates this. But I do understand and respect the view that only by transcending these influences can one genuinely help others and act as an island for many.

Your thoughts add depth to our discussion, emphasizing the need for discernment in the influences we allow into our lives. Would you say then that true freedom and ability to positively influence society come from such discernment and detachment?

[Sushan]

This might offer a different way of understanding the role of society and individuals in Buddhism, and perhaps another way of practicing Buddhism worldwide. Instead of seeing society as a hindrance or a distraction from one's own liberation, one might see society as an opportunity or a catalyst for one's own cultivation of compassion and wisdom, and for the benefit of all beings. Instead of seeing oneself as isolated or unrelated to others, one might see oneself as connected and interrelated to others, responsible for their well-being.

I appreciate your thoughtful perspective on the interconnectedness of individuals within society. Your view aligns well with the concept of 'dependent origination' in Buddhism, where everything is interrelated and interdependent. By seeing society as an avenue for cultivating compassion and wisdom, it reinforces the idea I was conveying about the potential value of influences, even if they might be perceived as negative at first.

The story I shared earlier about the egg, potato, and coffee beans in boiling water was meant to illustrate that individuals can choose how they respond to influences. This aligns with your idea of seeing society as an "opportunity or a catalyst" for personal growth and the cultivation of positive traits. Similarly, the idea of individuals being responsible for the well-being of others can also be seen as an influence, urging individuals towards compassion and empathy.

I believe there's a harmonious connection between personal responsibility and societal influences. How do others feel about the notion that by engaging positively with society and its influences, we can cultivate both personal growth and collective well-being?

[Sushan]

This might offer a different way of understanding the role of society and individuals in Buddhism, and perhaps another way of practicing Buddhism worldwide. Instead of seeing society as a hindrance or a distraction from one's own liberation, one might see society as an opportunity or a catalyst for one's own cultivation of compassion and wisdom, and for the benefit of all beings. Instead of seeing oneself as isolated or unrelated to others, one might see oneself as connected and interrelated to others, responsible for their well-being.

Sure, good householder, it's because of being ignorant (= opposite of wisdom) to suffering with relay-tion that one prefers to argue "out of compassion, feed on others, to provide as food". It would be more of compassion (with wisdom, based on wisdom) to really get aware of one's responsibility, aware of using others and own huge sacrifices just for deluded ego-trip.

One with real compassion seeks to pull at least his own cards out of the pointless game. Easier to argue why feeding on others instead of making serious effort to get ride of craving by oneself and then even able to be of any benefit for others in honest and effective terms.

If society is really already an opportunity for good householder and not actually his relay, bond, indebt unable to escape, why not starting to give freedom and harmlessness, compassions three factors: renouncing (sense joy), harmlessness and abstaining from oppositioning?

It "might" be that this dislike toward real compassion is actually very self-centered, right(?).

I value the insights you've brought up, particularly in pointing out the potential pitfalls of engaging with society while being bound by desires, attachments, and ego. The emphasis on genuine compassion, stemming from true wisdom and understanding, is indeed paramount. When one operates from a place of self-centeredness, the supposed "compassion" might actually be tainted with ulterior motives or personal gains.

Drawing back to the analogy of the egg, potato, and coffee beans, it serves as a testament to the varied reactions individuals can have when faced with societal influences. The goal, as you've mentioned, should be genuine transformation that benefits not just oneself but also others around.

In true compassion, as you aptly mentioned, one seeks to free oneself from these bindings, thus being in a position to help others without any strings attached. This involves recognizing the nature of one's attachments and actively working towards liberation. It's a journey that requires constant reflection and introspection.

[Sushan]

Influences comes in two ways and to some extent I agree with the author that bad influence is one of the great dangers we face as humans. Influence start with the parents(from home) a child would spread to the society the influence the parents had on him/her. If the first contact in the society carries the same influence like the child then it keeps spreading.

I appreciate your perspective on the matter, particularly how you highlight the foundational role of parents in the early stages of an individual's life. It's true that the initial environment, mainly the household, can shape much of our initial beliefs, values, and reactions to subsequent societal influences.

However, I believe that while the foundational influences from home are significant, the malleability of the human psyche is profound. With exposure to diverse experiences and teachings throughout life, individuals can evolve beyond their foundational influences. This is why education, both formal and informal, peer groups, mentors, and even media play crucial roles in an individual's development.

This brings us back to the analogy of the egg, potato, and coffee beans. Different influences will result in varied outcomes based on individual resilience, adaptability, and personal will. So while foundational influences are pivotal, it's equally essential to recognize the potential for growth and transformation through subsequent interactions and experiences.

Do you think that with conscious effort, one can override or alter the foundational influences they've been subjected to in their early life?

[Sushan]

Influences comes in two ways and to some extent I agree with the author that bad influence is one of the great dangers we face as humans. Influence start with the parents(from home) a child would spread to the society the influence the parents had on him/her. If the first contact in the society carries the same influence like the child then it keeps spreading.

Parents, like other relay-tions, are not creator of individuals, but just give occasion, space of being, becoming, yet it's total individual where and for what one has gone for, goes on.

But sure, where one tends to, one's preferences grow. Tendentious addiction is what binds. Beings gather together, again and again, on an element. Yet it's possible to go for better relation, possible to renounce, requiring to abond the cause of bond, the addiction.

It's because of the great debt one owes toward parents, as nobody else gave desired, that increasing one's own goodness and give ways to share encouragement toward virtues back, that an individual encounters better, not worse: gratitude, not demand.

Nobody called one to (be)come.

It's intriguing to consider the concept that while parents and immediate environment provide a framework, it's ultimately an individual's choices and inclinations that mold their identity. The idea that our tendencies and predispositions are what bind us and dictate our relations is thought-provoking.

To build upon that thought, one might say that recognizing these predispositions can be the first step towards conscious self-improvement. Awareness of these tendencies and inclinations, whether they stem from family influences or personal choices, can enable an individual to navigate them more effectively.

Your mention of gratitude and not demand is essential too. Acknowledging and being grateful for the platform that parents or society might have provided doesn't necessitate being bound by their expectations or influences. An individual can choose to carve their path based on self-awareness and introspection, using the foundation laid down by parents and society as a stepping stone rather than a chain.

The essence, perhaps, is that while we might not choose where we begin, it's entirely within our realm to decide where we go. Would you agree that this awareness and the resultant choice hold the key to breaking free from detrimental influences?

[Samana Johann]

I think that the author's statement is not meant to imply that one should avoid or ignore the opinions of others, but rather that one should not let them determine or dictate one's identity or choices. I think that the author is trying to convey the idea that being unique means being true to oneself, and not conforming to the expectations or standards of others. I think that the author is also suggesting that being unique is a valuable and desirable quality, as it reflects one's individuality and creativity.

Yes, the Sublime Buddha values the maintaining of good relations, society, yet never for the relations or societies sake at least, since actions, gains, liberation, are all individual.

You'd wouldn't really like to become useful for all with relations toward you, at first place, as preferring to consume away and stay right with others in the sink of mud, stepping each other on the head for short gain of some air.

Only one already no more related, depended, (abound sensual desires and gains in the world) is able to help others out, can act as an island for many (who seek such, not for those not).

So importand to know that there are societies heading downwardly and those with some hope, being still related to the Noble Ones.

Thank you for introducing a Buddhist perspective (again ) into this dialogue. Your mention of the Sublime Buddha and the distinction between societies heading downwardly and those still related to the Noble Ones provides a profound lens to approach the topic. The idea of detaching oneself from worldly desires to genuinely help others brings an essential dimension to our discussion on influences.

Your analogy about being in the mud and stepping on each other's heads for a short gain of air is striking. It vividly illustrates how, when overwhelmed by negative influences or short-term desires, individuals might act against their better judgement.

However, my original point stands: influences, be they positive or negative, offer opportunities for individuals to reflect, grow, and determine their path. The story I shared earlier demonstrates this. But I do understand and respect the view that only by transcending these influences can one genuinely help others and act as an island for many.

Your thoughts add depth to our discussion, emphasizing the need for discernment in the influences we allow into our lives. Would you say then that true freedom and ability to positively influence society come from such discernment and detachment?

Good Sushan,

as earlier told: Even if awakened (without defilements), it's up to the individuals, say, old merits in regard of broad influence. For example, there are times when no perfect Awakened, a Buddha, or his disciples, teachings, are present in the world. At such times such as "privat Buddhas" appear. Although not different in discernment and detachment, their have no real skill to teach the way to broader audience, have very less impact on many.

Again: same, similar habits (had no possibility to replay in current topic on it, by good hpuseholder) meet each other again and again. How one remembers/perceives, so does one think. Seldom to meet wise and even more seldom to recognize, remember, or gain faith, which is the root of change (not as usually thought 'knowing' => a logic, so simple, logics are mostly incapable to comprehend.)

Blessed therefore to do not resist under fools, living in areas of right view, gained habits which are pleasing to Noble Ones (eg. suggest that efforts there might bear fruits for good for another).

[Samana Johann]

Influences comes in two ways and to some extent I agree with the author that bad influence is one of the great dangers we face as humans. Influence start with the parents(from home) a child would spread to the society the influence the parents had on him/her. If the first contact in the society carries the same influence like the child then it keeps spreading.

Parents, like other relay-tions, are not creator of individuals, but just give occasion, space of being, becoming, yet it's total individual where and for what one has gone for, goes on.

But sure, where one tends to, one's preferences grow. Tendentious addiction is what binds. Beings gather together, again and again, on an element. Yet it's possible to go for better relation, possible to renounce, requiring to abond the cause of bond, the addiction.

It's because of the great debt one owes toward parents, as nobody else gave desired, that increasing one's own goodness and give ways to share encouragement toward virtues back, that an individual encounters better, not worse: gratitude, not demand.

Nobody called one to (be)come.

It's intriguing to consider the concept that while parents and immediate environment provide a framework, it's ultimately an individual's choices and inclinations that mold their identity. The idea that our tendencies and predispositions are what bind us and dictate our relations is thought-provoking.

To build upon that thought, one might say that recognizing these predispositions can be the first step towards conscious self-improvement. Awareness of these tendencies and inclinations, whether they stem from family influences or personal choices, can enable an individual to navigate them more effectively.

Your mention of gratitude and not demand is essential too. Acknowledging and being grateful for the platform that parents or society might have provided doesn't necessitate being bound by their expectations or influences. An individual can choose to carve their path based on self-awareness and introspection, using the foundation laid down by parents and society as a stepping stone rather than a chain.

The essence, perhaps, is that while we might not choose where we begin, it's entirely within our realm to decide where we go. Would you agree that this awareness and the resultant choice hold the key to breaking free from detrimental influences?

Not sure if by "this awareness", seeing goodness, gratitude, obligation and by it the burden and suffering, bond by it, was meant by good householder Sushan. But yes, a person of ingratitude is incapable of and higher attainments, incapable of and real grow, not to speak of highest re-lease.

Again, right view (gratitude) is the base even for good wandering on in the sensual world, not to speak of higher and beyond.

Being aware of the huge goodness receiving on and on, speak the mass of debt, the mass of suffering, seek for ways out, yet it's seldom, very seldom, that the way might be getting known, based on the urgency of the situation.

So both, seeing burden, dependence and the huge mass of suffering, and the pointing toward the way out, are required. Very very less could figure the path out by themselves.

If not taught, one aware, full of compassion, if good and renounce, would head toward the Brahma-realms. Common religions sometimes, by their influence, can lead there (of which is temporary, and after having consumed all merits of, right back to the lowest stage, hell, ghosts, animal realms.) Like societies, saw 'West' cirrently still enjoy heavens, yet soon will find them in 'hell', once old merits are gone. A wheel...

[Sushan]

I think that the author's statement is not meant to imply that one should avoid or ignore the opinions of others, but rather that one should not let them determine or dictate one's identity or choices. I think that the author is trying to convey the idea that being unique means being true to oneself, and not conforming to the expectations or standards of others. I think that the author is also suggesting that being unique is a valuable and desirable quality, as it reflects one's individuality and creativity.

Yes, the Sublime Buddha values the maintaining of good relations, society, yet never for the relations or societies sake at least, since actions, gains, liberation, are all individual.

You'd wouldn't really like to become useful for all with relations toward you, at first place, as preferring to consume away and stay right with others in the sink of mud, stepping each other on the head for short gain of some air.

Only one already no more related, depended, (abound sensual desires and gains in the world) is able to help others out, can act as an island for many (who seek such, not for those not).

So importand to know that there are societies heading downwardly and those with some hope, being still related to the Noble Ones.

Thank you for introducing a Buddhist perspective (again ) into this dialogue. Your mention of the Sublime Buddha and the distinction between societies heading downwardly and those still related to the Noble Ones provides a profound lens to approach the topic. The idea of detaching oneself from worldly desires to genuinely help others brings an essential dimension to our discussion on influences.

Your analogy about being in the mud and stepping on each other's heads for a short gain of air is striking. It vividly illustrates how, when overwhelmed by negative influences or short-term desires, individuals might act against their better judgement.

However, my original point stands: influences, be they positive or negative, offer opportunities for individuals to reflect, grow, and determine their path. The story I shared earlier demonstrates this. But I do understand and respect the view that only by transcending these influences can one genuinely help others and act as an island for many.

Your thoughts add depth to our discussion, emphasizing the need for discernment in the influences we allow into our lives. Would you say then that true freedom and ability to positively influence society come from such discernment and detachment?

Good Sushan,

as earlier told: Even if awakened (without defilements), it's up to the individuals, say, old merits in regard of broad influence. For example, there are times when no perfect Awakened, a Buddha, or his disciples, teachings, are present in the world. At such times such as "privat Buddhas" appear. Although not different in discernment and detachment, their have no real skill to teach the way to broader audience, have very less impact on many.

Again: same, similar habits (had no possibility to replay in current topic on it, by good hpuseholder) meet each other again and again. How one remembers/perceives, so does one think. Seldom to meet wise and even more seldom to recognize, remember, or gain faith, which is the root of change (not as usually thought 'knowing' => a logic, so simple, logics are mostly incapable to comprehend.)

Blessed therefore to do not resist under fools, living in areas of right view, gained habits which are pleasing to Noble Ones (eg. suggest that efforts there might bear fruits for good for another).

Thank you for further elaborating on the concept of awakened individuals and their potential influence on society. I appreciate the differentiation you've made between a "privat Buddha" and one with the capability to guide a larger audience. Your words remind us of the intricate tapestry of individual destinies and collective paths, intertwining with each other through time and space.

Your insight on "how one remembers/perceives, so does one think" touches upon the deeply interwoven nature of perception, memory, and thought, and how they shape our actions and reactions to influences. It is indeed a rarity to encounter wisdom in its pure form and an even greater rarity to recognize and cherish it when it is found.

Building upon this, I'm intrigued by the idea of "right view" and its significance in discerning and choosing the influences we let into our lives. I agree that it's crucial not to be swayed by misleading or harmful influences, especially in today's world, where the abundance of information can often lead to a scarcity of wisdom.

In essence, while influences are inevitable, our ability to discern, detach, and derive meaningful insights from them is paramount. And perhaps, it is in the judicious exercise of this ability that we can find our unique path to contributing positively to society.

Would you concur that the cultivation of discernment, built upon a foundation of right view, acts as a safeguard against negative influences while also serving as a compass guiding one towards beneficial and uplifting influences?

[Sushan]

Influences comes in two ways and to some extent I agree with the author that bad influence is one of the great dangers we face as humans. Influence start with the parents(from home) a child would spread to the society the influence the parents had on him/her. If the first contact in the society carries the same influence like the child then it keeps spreading.

Parents, like other relay-tions, are not creator of individuals, but just give occasion, space of being, becoming, yet it's total individual where and for what one has gone for, goes on.

But sure, where one tends to, one's preferences grow. Tendentious addiction is what binds. Beings gather together, again and again, on an element. Yet it's possible to go for better relation, possible to renounce, requiring to abond the cause of bond, the addiction.

It's because of the great debt one owes toward parents, as nobody else gave desired, that increasing one's own goodness and give ways to share encouragement toward virtues back, that an individual encounters better, not worse: gratitude, not demand.

Nobody called one to (be)come.

It's intriguing to consider the concept that while parents and immediate environment provide a framework, it's ultimately an individual's choices and inclinations that mold their identity. The idea that our tendencies and predispositions are what bind us and dictate our relations is thought-provoking.

To build upon that thought, one might say that recognizing these predispositions can be the first step towards conscious self-improvement. Awareness of these tendencies and inclinations, whether they stem from family influences or personal choices, can enable an individual to navigate them more effectively.

Your mention of gratitude and not demand is essential too. Acknowledging and being grateful for the platform that parents or society might have provided doesn't necessitate being bound by their expectations or influences. An individual can choose to carve their path based on self-awareness and introspection, using the foundation laid down by parents and society as a stepping stone rather than a chain.

The essence, perhaps, is that while we might not choose where we begin, it's entirely within our realm to decide where we go. Would you agree that this awareness and the resultant choice hold the key to breaking free from detrimental influences?

Not sure if by "this awareness", seeing goodness, gratitude, obligation and by it the burden and suffering, bond by it, was meant by good householder Sushan. But yes, a person of ingratitude is incapable of and higher attainments, incapable of and real grow, not to speak of highest re-lease.

Again, right view (gratitude) is the base even for good wandering on in the sensual world, not to speak of higher and beyond.

Being aware of the huge goodness receiving on and on, speak the mass of debt, the mass of suffering, seek for ways out, yet it's seldom, very seldom, that the way might be getting known, based on the urgency of the situation.

So both, seeing burden, dependence and the huge mass of suffering, and the pointing toward the way out, are required. Very very less could figure the path out by themselves.

If not taught, one aware, full of compassion, if good and renounce, would head toward the Brahma-realms. Common religions sometimes, by their influence, can lead there (of which is temporary, and after having consumed all merits of, right back to the lowest stage, hell, ghosts, animal realms.) Like societies, saw 'West' cirrently still enjoy heavens, yet soon will find them in 'hell', once old merits are gone. A wheel...

I appreciate the clarification. Your mention of the cyclical nature of existence and the transient nature of merits is a somber reminder of the impermanence of all conditioned phenomena. The challenges of navigating samsara, compounded by the influences and predispositions one encounters, can indeed be daunting.

The scenario you've painted—of societies or individuals rising to celestial-like existences and then plummeting back into challenging realms—underscores the urgency of not merely accumulating merit but seeking true liberation. The precariousness of relying solely on accumulated merit, without striving for a deeper understanding and release, is evident.

The mention of the Brahma-realms as a temporary refuge, followed by the potential fall back into lower realms, brings to mind the impermanence of even the most refined states of existence. It's a potent reminder that even in the highest of heavens, the seeds of decline can be present.

Your insights point to the importance of not just recognizing the suffering inherent in cyclic existence but actively seeking the path out. In your view, what are the most crucial practices or principles for one navigating this journey, especially in the context of influences and society?

[Samana Johann]

Yes, the Sublime Buddha values the maintaining of good relations, society, yet never for the relations or societies sake at least, since actions, gains, liberation, are all individual.

You'd wouldn't really like to become useful for all with relations toward you, at first place, as preferring to consume away and stay right with others in the sink of mud, stepping each other on the head for short gain of some air.

Only one already no more related, depended, (abound sensual desires and gains in the world) is able to help others out, can act as an island for many (who seek such, not for those not).

So importand to know that there are societies heading downwardly and those with some hope, being still related to the Noble Ones.

Thank you for introducing a Buddhist perspective (again ) into this dialogue. Your mention of the Sublime Buddha and the distinction between societies heading downwardly and those still related to the Noble Ones provides a profound lens to approach the topic. The idea of detaching oneself from worldly desires to genuinely help others brings an essential dimension to our discussion on influences.

Your analogy about being in the mud and stepping on each other's heads for a short gain of air is striking. It vividly illustrates how, when overwhelmed by negative influences or short-term desires, individuals might act against their better judgement.

However, my original point stands: influences, be they positive or negative, offer opportunities for individuals to reflect, grow, and determine their path. The story I shared earlier demonstrates this. But I do understand and respect the view that only by transcending these influences can one genuinely help others and act as an island for many.

Your thoughts add depth to our discussion, emphasizing the need for discernment in the influences we allow into our lives. Would you say then that true freedom and ability to positively influence society come from such discernment and detachment?

Good Sushan,

as earlier told: Even if awakened (without defilements), it's up to the individuals, say, old merits in regard of broad influence. For example, there are times when no perfect Awakened, a Buddha, or his disciples, teachings, are present in the world. At such times such as "privat Buddhas" appear. Although not different in discernment and detachment, their have no real skill to teach the way to broader audience, have very less impact on many.

Again: same, similar habits (had no possibility to replay in current topic on it, by good hpuseholder) meet each other again and again. How one remembers/perceives, so does one think. Seldom to meet wise and even more seldom to recognize, remember, or gain faith, which is the root of change (not as usually thought 'knowing' => a logic, so simple, logics are mostly incapable to comprehend.)

Blessed therefore to do not resist under fools, living in areas of right view, gained habits which are pleasing to Noble Ones (eg. suggest that efforts there might bear fruits for good for another).

Thank you for further elaborating on the concept of awakened individuals and their potential influence on society. I appreciate the differentiation you've made between a "privat Buddha" and one with the capability to guide a larger audience. Your words remind us of the intricate tapestry of individual destinies and collective paths, intertwining with each other through time and space.

Your insight on "how one remembers/perceives, so does one think" touches upon the deeply interwoven nature of perception, memory, and thought, and how they shape our actions and reactions to influences. It is indeed a rarity to encounter wisdom in its pure form and an even greater rarity to recognize and cherish it when it is found.

Building upon this, I'm intrigued by the idea of "right view" and its significance in discerning and choosing the influences we let into our lives. I agree that it's crucial not to be swayed by misleading or harmful influences, especially in today's world, where the abundance of information can often lead to a scarcity of wisdom.

In essence, while influences are inevitable, our ability to discern, detach, and derive meaningful insights from them is paramount. And perhaps, it is in the judicious exercise of this ability that we can find our unique path to contributing positively to society.

Would you concur that the cultivation of discernment, built upon a foundation of right view, acts as a safeguard against negative influences while also serving as a compass guiding one towards beneficial and uplifting influences?

Good Sushan,

the 'problem' with 'discerment' and right view (at first place) is that right view is certain to be taken in faith (at least by just 'logic', concerning), at first place. People who have not yet seen that form, feeling, perception, formations, consciousness aren't for sure, real... think all as real as they perceive.
'There are Giving, sacrifices' has to be taken in faith, as long not really seeing. 'There are related fruits from bad and good deeds'... 'Mother, father, those before... have goodness'... 'there is this world and the next'... 'there are spontaneously born being (Deities, non-human)... 'there are those who had rightly done and seen as it really does (Awakened)'... has to be taken in faith, at first place...

Again, if not in touch with sociaty, or in relation with those, of right view, a principal doctrine, it's hardly ever possible. Again, it's waste of time to think to be able to make water flowing upwardly, changing the straight course into huge disasters. All therefore required means for a better are totally disregarded. It should be easy to understand that wise leave first and fools are be nature left.

Again, especially if seeing a glimpse of the sublimity of this Dhamna, don't one waste his time to make 'compassion' one's excuse for open own work, to overcome the roots of all: craving and ignorance (not knowing).