Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Philosophy Club

[d3r31nz1g3]

krill.png (1.14 MiB) Viewed 3147 times

When one thinks of mortality and free will, one generally starts to think that mortality and free will must be incompatible.

For if free will exists, it MUST be compatible with mortality.

So, "mortality and free will" must be compatible.

However, I believe this image visually demonstrates that mortality and free will are NOT compatible. And that robotics itself visually reflects the fact that it isn't.

Mortal robots.

[JackDaydream]

krill.png

When one thinks of mortality and free will, one generally starts to think that mortality and free will must be incompatible.

For if free will exists, it MUST be compatible with mortality.

So, "mortality and free will" must be compatible.

However, I believe this image visually demonstrates that mortality and free will are NOT compatible. And that robotics itself visually reflects the fact that it isn't.

Mortal robots.

In what way do you think that the picture shows that mortality and free will are not compatible? Also, generally speaking, when people think of the philosophy of free will they are thinking of human consciousness. So, it is unclear what lifeforms and free will you are talking about in your idea of 'mortal robots. The picture in itself needs to be explained further in order to develop an arguable position.

[d3r31nz1g3]

Well free will and self-direction immediately seem incompatible with free will. You tell me I'm a self responsible, decision making being with creative ability? Well why do I DIE FOREVER at the end of it? No more free will when I'm dead.

The krill is an organism that which is a sensory robot and it's entirely built out of electrical/data circuits. It runs on electricity through wires (nerves).

Certainly by visual appearance alone as well as understanding mortality we can understand that robotical technology will not advance beyond an incredibly complex network and function of electrical circuits.

As in, mortals cannot have free will. And the robot is evidence we don't. Because of circuits.

[Pattern-chaser]

Well why do I DIE FOREVER at the end of it? No more free will when I'm dead.

Is this philosophy, or just wishful (and arrogant?) thinking, that the universe is other than you would prefer?

Certainly by visual appearance alone as well as understanding mortality we can understand that robotical technology will not advance beyond an incredibly complex network and function of electrical circuits. As in, mortals cannot have free will. And the robot is evidence we don't. Because of circuits.

Circuits? A krill has 'circuits'? I think you will find that even a krill is rather more sophisticated than any human-constructed robot, in many different ways. Humans, and krill, have the equivalent of 'circuits' too, biological 'circuits'. And yet we, if not krill (?), have developed, or been endowed with, free will. It would seem that circuits are not a significant factor here?

[d3r31nz1g3]

1000_F_164853201_J8bHAFohxRWQseGVUGGKkQiWoMZpHX0R.jpg (483.08 KiB) Viewed 3050 times

Why is the computer circuit so incredibly linear? So electrical, so laser-like. So digital.

Then we all die.

[Pattern-chaser]

Why is the computer circuit so incredibly linear? So electrical, so laser-like. So digital.

Then we all die.

I thought your topic was about free will and mortality? What have digital electronics got to do with free will and mortality?

[d3r31nz1g3]

Free will seems incompatible with mortality. Why would I responsibly self-direct myself unto an eternal demise? Why would I be responsibly self-directing myself amidst billions upon billions of people that are perpetually birthing, living, and dying?

Coincidentally, electronics involve electricity and data. As related to light and lasers. "Beep bop boop". Seems kind of digital. Highly automated. It even visually appears that way.

[d3r31nz1g3]

Furthermore, binary code.

01001001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01101011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100011 01101111 01110101 01101100 01100100 00100000 01100010 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 00100000 01101001 01101110 01110100 01100101 01110010 01100101 01110011 01110100 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100101 01111000 01100011 01101000 01100001 01101110 01100111 01100101 00101100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01001001 00100000 01110111 01101111 01110101 01101100 01100100 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100110 01101111 01101100 01101100 01101111 01110111 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110111 01101000 01101001 01101100 01100101 00100000 11100010 10000000 10010100 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110100 00100000 01110111 01101111 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100111 01101111 00100000 01110111 01100101 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101001 01100110 00100000 01110111 01100101 00100000 01100010 01100101 01100111 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01110011 01110100 01110010 01100001 01110111 00100000 01101101 01100101 01101110 00101110 00100000 01001001 01100110 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100111 01101100 01100001 01101110 01100011 01100101 00100000 01110101 01110000 00101100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01100110 01101001 01110010 01101101 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 01110011 01100101 01101100 01100110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01001001 00100000 01100100 01101001 01100100 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01110111 01110010 01101001 01110100 01100101 00100000 00100010 01110101 01110011 01100101 01101100 01100101 01110011 01110011 00100010 00101100 00100000 01001001 00100000 01110111 01110010 01101111 01110100 01100101 00100000 00100010 00101000 01101100 01101001 01101101 01101001 01110100 01100101 01100100 00101001 00100000 01110101 01110011 01100101 00100010 00101100 00100000 01110111 01101000 01101001 01100011 01101000 00100000 01100011 01100001 01110010 01110010 01101001 01100101 01110011 00100000 01110001 01110101 01101001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100100 01101001 01100110 01100110 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 01110100 00100000 01101101 01100101 01100001 01101110 01101001 01101110 01100111 00101100 00100000 01100001 01110011 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110111 01100101 01101100 01101100 00100000 01100001 01110111 01100001 01110010 01100101 00101110 00001101 00001010 00001101 00001010 01010011 01101111 00100000 01110011 01101000 01100001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110111 01100101 00100000 01110000 01110010 01101111 01100011 01100101 01100101 01100100 00101100 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110011 01100101 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101100 01100101 01100001 01100100 01110011 00101100 00100000 01101111 01110010 00100000 01110011 01101000 01100001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110111 01100101 00100000 01101010 01110101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01101001 01101110 01100100 01110101 01101100 01100111 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100100 01100101 01101100 01101001 01100010 01100101 01110010 01100001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01101101 01101001 01110011 01110001 01110101 01101111 01110100 01101001 01101110 01100111 01110011 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01101101 01101001 01110011 01100001 01110000 01110000 01110010 01100101 01101000 01100101 01101110 01110011 01101001 01101111 01101110 01110011 00111111








1. Binary code is absolutely linear.
2. Light, electricity, and lasers are absolutely linear.
3. Everybody dies.

[Pattern-chaser]

Furthermore, binary code.

01001001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01101011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100011
...
01100101 01101000 01100101 01101110 01110011 01101001 01101111 01101110 01110011 00111111

OK, so you can dump a load of binary byte-values into a post. I could transform the characters of this post into hex for you, if it will make it easier to understand? Do you think the numbers you listed mean something? Were your readers supposed to be able to understand that meaning?

[amorphos_ii]

If humans built a robot to be superior to themselves, then for a robot to be superior to humans, it would have to build something superior to itself. Ad infinitum. Nothing can become superior.

So if we are worried about a need for robots to be mortal [maybe, have an off switch], perhaps we don’t need to be.

More interestingly [than what I just said] for me, is the notion that a more intelligent being would be perhaps more moral/ethical in some sense?

[d3r31nz1g3]

OK, so you can dump a load of binary byte-values into a post. I could transform the characters of this post into hex for you, if it will make it easier to understand? Do you think the numbers you listed mean something? Were your readers supposed to be able to understand that meaning?

Yes, they were.

1. Absolutely everyone dies.
2. There are billions of dead people from history.
3. Billions of people are perpetually living and dying in to the future.
4. Death is permanent and life is finite.

Why would I have free will if I just die?

"Binary code".

01101101 01101001 01110100 01100101 01100100 00101001 00100000 01110101 01110011

[LuckyR]

Still waiting for a proposal as to why two unrelated concepts are related.

[d3r31nz1g3]

It seems peculiar that people have a creative will despite the fact that everyone is perpetually dying.

"I have a an artistic soul, the ability for choice and moral responsibility... then I forever perish, eradicated from all cognizance amongst billions of peers who are likewise".

How can I have an "artistic souls" and "moral responsibility" or the freedom of choice if I am going to inevitably DIE?

Am I incorrect for thinking it's a contradiction?

I don't think so.

"Binary code."

"Just a bunch of zeroes and ones".

[d3r31nz1g3]

I paint a painting. I write a book. I compose a song. I make my choices. My guilt is earned and so are my praises.

Then I die forever. I had a creative free will and then I died forever.

How does that make sense?

The answer is that it doesn't.

[LuckyR]

I paint a painting. I write a book. I compose a song. I make my choices. My guilt is earned and so are my praises.

Then I die forever. I had a creative free will and then I died forever.

How does that make sense?

The answer is that it doesn't.

Ok. So what's your alternative?