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[Fanman]

Also... that from my perspective and probably the Christian perspective that would be the most important Biblical consistency there is for those of us in the Anno Domini.

[Fanman]

Mounce574,

I do not have the answers completely, I will also not force my beliefs upon someone else either. I think God shows himself when he deems his presence necessary. From my understanding, in Revelations Christ is going to return, and we will all stand before judgment at that time. From watching the world now, I feel (Note the word feel) that this will happen during my lifetime. As for the Big Bang theory- is it possible that God caused it? I know of a study where they found a tree that was older than the estimated time of creation from the Big Bang.

Neither do I. I don’t mean to sound patronising, but good for you. There’s nothing worse than people trying to force their beliefs on you. A good Christian understands that it’s up to people to decide about faith, of their own volition. By all means, preach, but do not force. Also, haven’t you learned that saying the word “feel” in reference to anything in a place like this is taboo? I’m good with that though. If you feel something by all means believe it, but try to back up your feelings with some evidence, otherwise, in a place like this, you will be crushed. I don’t know when it comes to the origins of the universe. If there is a God, maybe he did it that way, or maybe it just happened as a result of different forces acting on each other. With regards to the tree, that is astounding. I’d be hard-pressed to believe that, but scientific facts can’t really be disputed.

[Mounce574]

Mounce574,

I do not have the answers completely, I will also not force my beliefs upon someone else either. I think God shows himself when he deems his presence necessary. From my understanding, in Revelations Christ is going to return, and we will all stand before judgment at that time. From watching the world now, I feel (Note the word feel) that this will happen during my lifetime. As for the Big Bang theory- is it possible that God caused it? I know of a study where they found a tree that was older than the estimated time of creation from the Big Bang.

Neither do I. I don’t mean to sound patronising, but good for you. There’s nothing worse than people trying to force their beliefs on you. A good Christian understands that it’s up to people to decide about faith, of their own volition. By all means, preach, but do not force. Also, haven’t you learned that saying the word “feel” in reference to anything in a place like this is taboo? I’m good with that though. If you feel something by all means believe it, but try to back up your feelings with some evidence, otherwise, in a place like this, you will be crushed. I don’t know when it comes to the origins of the universe. If there is a God, maybe he did it that way, or maybe it just happened as a result of different forces acting on each other. With regards to the tree, that is astounding. I’d be hard-pressed to believe that, but scientific facts can’t really be disputed.

When I stated feel, I mean by the scripture in Revelations of Christ's Return this will happen in my lifetime. If I am wrong it is because I am a human capable of making mistakes. I am looking at world events in more than just the political realm - famine, drought, floods, disease, and more are all precursors. I won't even attempt to predict the exact date, just that "he will come like a thief in the night," indicates he could return now or tomorrow.

[Belindi]

Mounce574,

I do not have the answers completely, I will also not force my beliefs upon someone else either. I think God shows himself when he deems his presence necessary. From my understanding, in Revelations Christ is going to return, and we will all stand before judgment at that time. From watching the world now, I feel (Note the word feel) that this will happen during my lifetime. As for the Big Bang theory- is it possible that God caused it? I know of a study where they found a tree that was older than the estimated time of creation from the Big Bang.

Neither do I. I don’t mean to sound patronising, but good for you. There’s nothing worse than people trying to force their beliefs on you. A good Christian understands that it’s up to people to decide about faith, of their own volition. By all means, preach, but do not force. Also, haven’t you learned that saying the word “feel” in reference to anything in a place like this is taboo? I’m good with that though. If you feel something by all means believe it, but try to back up your feelings with some evidence, otherwise, in a place like this, you will be crushed. I don’t know when it comes to the origins of the universe. If there is a God, maybe he did it that way, or maybe it just happened as a result of different forces acting on each other. With regards to the tree, that is astounding. I’d be hard-pressed to believe that, but scientific facts can’t really be disputed.

When I stated feel, I mean by the scripture in Revelations of Christ's Return this will happen in my lifetime. If I am wrong it is because I am a human capable of making mistakes. I am looking at world events in more than just the political realm - famine, drought, floods, disease, and more are all precursors. I won't even attempt to predict the exact date, just that "he will come like a thief in the night," indicates he could return now or tomorrow.

Your understanding of who or what is the "he" is an odd compound of magical and literal. Jesus is long dead and can't return in the flesh. If you persist in the magical and literal belief you will miss the important psychological awakening to the moral message.

[Mounce574]

Mounce574,

I do not have the answers completely, I will also not force my beliefs upon someone else either. I think God shows himself when he deems his presence necessary. From my understanding, in Revelations Christ is going to return, and we will all stand before judgment at that time. From watching the world now, I feel (Note the word feel) that this will happen during my lifetime. As for the Big Bang theory- is it possible that God caused it? I know of a study where they found a tree that was older than the estimated time of creation from the Big Bang.

Neither do I. I don’t mean to sound patronising, but good for you. There’s nothing worse than people trying to force their beliefs on you. A good Christian understands that it’s up to people to decide about faith, of their own volition. By all means, preach, but do not force. Also, haven’t you learned that saying the word “feel” in reference to anything in a place like this is taboo? I’m good with that though. If you feel something by all means believe it, but try to back up your feelings with some evidence, otherwise, in a place like this, you will be crushed. I don’t know when it comes to the origins of the universe. If there is a God, maybe he did it that way, or maybe it just happened as a result of different forces acting on each other. With regards to the tree, that is astounding. I’d be hard-pressed to believe that, but scientific facts can’t really be disputed.

When I stated feel, I mean by the scripture in Revelations of Christ's Return this will happen in my lifetime. If I am wrong it is because I am a human capable of making mistakes. I am looking at world events in more than just the political realm - famine, drought, floods, disease, and more are all precursors. I won't even attempt to predict the exact date, just that "he will come like a thief in the night," indicates he could return now or tomorrow.

Your understanding of who or what is the "he" is an odd compound of magical and literal. Jesus is long dead and can't return in the flesh. If you persist in the magical and literal belief you will miss the important psychological awakening to the moral message.

Jesus was resurrected 3 days after his death and ascended to Heaven. That is what the original Easter was recognized for. I don't know if he will return in flesh or spirit. I don't find "magic" to be any part of my belief. And I am not exactly sure what you are referring to when you say I will miss the important psychological awakening to the moral message. What moral message do you mean?

[Belindi]

Mounce574,



Neither do I. I don’t mean to sound patronising, but good for you. There’s nothing worse than people trying to force their beliefs on you. A good Christian understands that it’s up to people to decide about faith, of their own volition. By all means, preach, but do not force. Also, haven’t you learned that saying the word “feel” in reference to anything in a place like this is taboo? I’m good with that though. If you feel something by all means believe it, but try to back up your feelings with some evidence, otherwise, in a place like this, you will be crushed. I don’t know when it comes to the origins of the universe. If there is a God, maybe he did it that way, or maybe it just happened as a result of different forces acting on each other. With regards to the tree, that is astounding. I’d be hard-pressed to believe that, but scientific facts can’t really be disputed.

When I stated feel, I mean by the scripture in Revelations of Christ's Return this will happen in my lifetime. If I am wrong it is because I am a human capable of making mistakes. I am looking at world events in more than just the political realm - famine, drought, floods, disease, and more are all precursors. I won't even attempt to predict the exact date, just that "he will come like a thief in the night," indicates he could return now or tomorrow.

Your understanding of who or what is the "he" is an odd compound of magical and literal. Jesus is long dead and can't return in the flesh. If you persist in the magical and literal belief you will miss the important psychological awakening to the moral message.

Jesus was resurrected 3 days after his death and ascended to Heaven. That is what the original Easter was recognized for. I don't know if he will return in flesh or spirit. I don't find "magic" to be any part of my belief. And I am not exactly sure what you are referring to when you say I will miss the important psychological awakening to the moral message. What moral message do you mean?

Good God! The moral message is "Do unto your neighbour as you would have them do unto you. Plus the message intrinsic to the parable of the Good Samaritan , that your neighbour is each individual regardless of race, sex, creed, social status, or nationality.

[Mounce574]

When I stated feel, I mean by the scripture in Revelations of Christ's Return this will happen in my lifetime. If I am wrong it is because I am a human capable of making mistakes. I am looking at world events in more than just the political realm - famine, drought, floods, disease, and more are all precursors. I won't even attempt to predict the exact date, just that "he will come like a thief in the night," indicates he could return now or tomorrow.

Your understanding of who or what is the "he" is an odd compound of magical and literal. Jesus is long dead and can't return in the flesh. If you persist in the magical and literal belief you will miss the important psychological awakening to the moral message.

Jesus was resurrected 3 days after his death and ascended to Heaven. That is what the original Easter was recognized for. I don't know if he will return in flesh or spirit. I don't find "magic" to be any part of my belief. And I am not exactly sure what you are referring to when you say I will miss the important psychological awakening to the moral message. What moral message do you mean?

Good God! The moral message is "Do unto your neighbour as you would have them do unto you. Plus the message intrinsic to the parable of the Good Samaritan , that your neighbour is each individual regardless of race, sex, creed, social status, or nationality.

I misunderstood what you were meaning with your original response to what I said. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you has nothing to do with what I said regarding what I said about Revelations. I treat others with respectfully and accept them for who they are. Whether I agree with their choices in life doesn't mean their thoughts, feeligs, and life are lesss valuable than my own.

[EricPH]

The moral message is "Do unto your neighbour as you would have them do unto you. Plus the message intrinsic to the parable of the Good Samaritan , that your neighbour is each individual regardless of race, sex, creed, social status, or nationality.

That's very much how I see the moral message. I prefer the words of the greatest commandments, the lessons are profound and tough, we take a lifetime journey striving to live by them.

[Fanman]

Mounce574,

When I stated feel, I mean by the scripture in Revelations of Christ's Return this will happen in my lifetime. If I am wrong it is because I am a human capable of making mistakes. I am looking at world events in more than just the political realm - famine, drought, floods, disease, and more are all precursors. I won't even attempt to predict the exact date, just that "he will come like a thief in the night," indicates he could return now or tomorrow.

What can I say, I don’t know. As you say the Biblical precursors are all there, but due to the scarcity of evidence that anything like his return is possible, it has to be through faith that you, I or anyone could believe. If we posit that Christ will return, that to some degree opens a pandora’s box for the possibilities that can happen in existence. The atheist lines of argumentation will always shut down any such ideas. But I tend to keep my mind open and not restrict reality to a 3-dimensional prison. In my experience, friend, there is a 4th dimension which consists of spiritual energy (how fuzzy a term is that). I make no claims of knowledge about how such a dimension operates, but nonetheless, I believe it is there. I don’t know if there is a God, but in my experience and the experience of others, I’ve heard about, there is much more to existence than science can tell us. I think that as people we have to weigh things up. Should we be spoon-fed information that is supported by empirical (or scientific) evidence and believe it without question? Or should we believe what we feel and experience as human beings?

[Sy Borg]

Mounce574,

When I stated feel, I mean by the scripture in Revelations of Christ's Return this will happen in my lifetime. If I am wrong it is because I am a human capable of making mistakes. I am looking at world events in more than just the political realm - famine, drought, floods, disease, and more are all precursors. I won't even attempt to predict the exact date, just that "he will come like a thief in the night," indicates he could return now or tomorrow.

What can I say, I don’t know. As you say the Biblical precursors are all there, but due to the scarcity of evidence that anything like his return is possible, it has to be through faith that you, I or anyone could believe. If we posit that Christ will return, that to some degree opens a pandora’s box for the possibilities that can happen in existence. The atheist lines of argumentation will always shut down any such ideas. But I tend to keep my mind open and not restrict reality to a 3-dimensional prison. In my experience, friend, there is a 4th dimension which consists of spiritual energy (how fuzzy a term is that). I make no claims of knowledge about how such a dimension operates, but nonetheless, I believe it is there. I don’t know if there is a God, but in my experience and the experience of others, I’ve heard about, there is much more to existence than science can tell us. I think that as people we have to weigh things up. Should we be spoon-fed information that is supported by empirical (or scientific) evidence and believe it without question? Or should we believe what we feel and experience as human beings?

With eight billion people on the planet, it's no surprise that people figure that the game is just about up. Ecosystems are already rapidly being eradicated with current overpopulation, and the number is expected to rise to eleven billion later this century. If it does, life will be incredibly uncomfortable for most.

It's a safe bet that some major events will occur and every time it does, numerous theists will continue to deem each one to be God's scouring of sinners. The Pentacostals are ready for the Apocalypse. Since they see the wealthy as being rewarded by God and the poor to be sinners who are getting their just desserts, the future will map out as per the Bible. It's pretty clear that the poor and destitute will face the brunt of what's coming.


PS. Fanman, your signature misrepresents atheists as soulless machines. No, atheists do not compute like a machine. We are flesh and blood human beings, not laptops. Atheists consider the facts of the matter, and the facts of the matter do not currently support those who unquestioningly believe in myths, hence the shrinkage of the God of the Gaps over the last few centuries.

[Fanman]

Sy,

With eight billion people on the planet, it's no surprise that people figure that the game is just about up. Ecosystems are already rapidly being eradicated with current overpopulation, and the number is expected to rise to eleven billion later this century. If it does, life will be incredibly uncomfortable for most.

It's a safe bet that some major events will occur and every time it does, numerous theists will continue to deem each one to be God's scouring of sinners. The Pentacostals are ready for the Apocalypse. Since they see the wealthy as being rewarded by God and the poor to be sinners who are getting their just desserts, the future will map out as per the Bible. It's pretty clear that the poor and destitute will face the brunt of what's coming.

I don’t know what to say about this. At the end of the day, we’ll just have to see what happens. As people, we are very good at defeating ourselves.

PS. Fanman, your signature misrepresents atheists as soulless machines. No, atheists do not compute like a machine. We are flesh and blood human beings, not laptops. Atheists consider the facts of the matter, and the facts of the matter do not currently support those who unquestioningly believe in myths, hence the shrinkage of the God of the Gaps over the last few centuries.

You’re overthinking it. My signature is just a quip. I respect atheists, even though I don’t always agree with them. By all means, live by the scientific facts, that is a logical and reasonable choice. No one is asking atheists to believe in what you call myths. That too is a choice.

[Sy Borg]

Sy,

With eight billion people on the planet, it's no surprise that people figure that the game is just about up. Ecosystems are already rapidly being eradicated with current overpopulation, and the number is expected to rise to eleven billion later this century. If it does, life will be incredibly uncomfortable for most.

It's a safe bet that some major events will occur and every time it does, numerous theists will continue to deem each one to be God's scouring of sinners. The Pentacostals are ready for the Apocalypse. Since they see the wealthy as being rewarded by God and the poor to be sinners who are getting their just desserts, the future will map out as per the Bible. It's pretty clear that the poor and destitute will face the brunt of what's coming.

I don’t know what to say about this. At the end of the day, we’ll just have to see what happens. As people, we are very good at defeating ourselves.

One thing that can be said is that the Pentecostal approach to wealth and poverty is opposite to Jesus's ideas in the NT. Not sure how they rationalise that, but no doubt they do.

PS. Fanman, your signature misrepresents atheists as soulless machines. No, atheists do not compute like a machine. We are flesh and blood human beings, not laptops. Atheists consider the facts of the matter, and the facts of the matter do not currently support those who unquestioningly believe in myths, hence the shrinkage of the God of the Gaps over the last few centuries.

You’re overthinking it. My signature is just a quip. I respect atheists, even though I don’t always agree with them. By all means, live by the scientific facts, that is a logical and reasonable choice. No one is asking atheists to believe in what you call myths. That too is a choice.

Nonetheless, atheists no not calculate the way theists believe. "Analyse", sure, but that is not the same as calculation, which has an inhuman semantic. As you know, it's not uncommon for atheists to be accused of being inhuman or subhuman by theists, so the quip is either a misrepresentation, be it deliberate or accidental.

[Fanman]

Sy,

Nonetheless, atheists no not calculate the way theists believe. "Analyse", sure, but that is not the same as calculation, which has an inhuman semantic. As you know, it's not uncommon for atheists to be accused of being inhuman or subhuman by theists, so the quip is either a misrepresentation, be it deliberate or accidental.

I changed my signature. So it doesn't carry a negative connotation.

[Sy Borg]

Sy,

Nonetheless, atheists no not calculate the way theists believe. "Analyse", sure, but that is not the same as calculation, which has an inhuman semantic. As you know, it's not uncommon for atheists to be accused of being inhuman or subhuman by theists, so the quip is either a misrepresentation, be it deliberate or accidental.

I changed my signature. So it doesn't carry a negative connotation.

Cheers, that has a more accurate semantic IMO.

I was agnostic for a long time. I have read and listened to many theist arguments, and none of them justified belief in the anthropomorphic spirit posited in any of the myths of antiquity. For a while I felt that near death experiences were key but, the more I checked them out, the more culturally specific they seemed, eg. Many Christians saw Jesus or God, Catholics see Mary, Muslims see Mohammed etc.

I am still to find a single convincing and grounded argument for the Biblical God. There are some interesting Spinozan-style pantheistic ideas floating around, which strike me as more sensible than a personified deity.

[Belindi]

LuckyR

Absolutely correct. It is so refreshing to converse with someone of faith... who actually grasps the fact that faith is independent of proof and evidence.

It seems as though I am being misunderstood. My point (in reference to the Christian God) was to highlight the fact that if he were detectable objectively via proof or evidence, the New Testament would be null and void. Meaning that God would not allow himself to be detected because of that. To discuss the particulars of faith as a practice was not my goal.

I understand Fanman. Although the life of Jesus does not depend on the NT Jesus' interpretation of God is the theme of the NT. The mission of Paul is a sub theme.