Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sy Borg]

It's pretty obvious that evil befalls everyone. It's just a matter of time. As the saying goes, there are no happy endings, only unfinished stories.

As for God, Hell and Heaven, these are as real as Odin, Loki and Asgard.

[Samana Johann]

It's pretty obvious that evil befalls everyone. It's just a matter of time. As the saying goes, there are no happy endings, only unfinished stories.

Those who have abound the five lower fetters, incl. sensual desire, are incapable of aversive states, and those abound the first three lower fetter are no more able of evil deeds, Noble Ones, good householder. It's right to state that who ever has not arrived at the stream is still able to do the most evil deeds, incl. killing ones parents, holly ones, splitt good apart. Something one is wise to terrible fear, as deeds have effect, evil, for long, long time.

There is also such as a happy end, good householer. Good how ever, to seek for an end of falling downwardly.

[Sy Borg]

It's pretty obvious that evil befalls everyone. It's just a matter of time. As the saying goes, there are no happy endings, only unfinished stories.

Those who have abound the five lower fetters, incl. sensual desire, are incapable of aversive states, and those abound the first three lower fetter are no more able of evil deeds, Noble Ones, good householder. It's right to state that who ever has not arrived at the stream is still able to do the most evil deeds, incl. killing ones parents, holly ones, splitt good apart. Something one is wise to terrible fear, as deeds have effect, evil, for long, long time.

There is also such as a happy end, good householer. Good how ever, to seek for an end of falling downwardly.

Life on Earth, including humans, strike me as falling upwardly, so to speak. However, individuals have just one certain prospect - death.

[Samana Johann]

It's pretty obvious that evil befalls everyone. It's just a matter of time. As the saying goes, there are no happy endings, only unfinished stories.

Those who have abound the five lower fetters, incl. sensual desire, are incapable of aversive states, and those abound the first three lower fetter are no more able of evil deeds, Noble Ones, good householder. It's right to state that who ever has not arrived at the stream is still able to do the most evil deeds, incl. killing ones parents, holly ones, splitt good apart. Something one is wise to terrible fear, as deeds have effect, evil, for long, long time.

There is also such as a happy end, good householer. Good how ever, to seek for an end of falling downwardly.

Life on Earth, including humans, strike me as falling upwardly, so to speak. However, individuals have just one certain prospect - death.

As if death would be an end, good householder. If so, people would seek such as an escape, and surely those having such dangerous ideas, do so, meeting the fruits of evil by thoughts, words, speech.

[Sy Borg]

It's pretty obvious that evil befalls everyone. It's just a matter of time. As the saying goes, there are no happy endings, only unfinished stories.

Those who have abound the five lower fetters, incl. sensual desire, are incapable of aversive states, and those abound the first three lower fetter are no more able of evil deeds, Noble Ones, good householder. It's right to state that who ever has not arrived at the stream is still able to do the most evil deeds, incl. killing ones parents, holly ones, splitt good apart. Something one is wise to terrible fear, as deeds have effect, evil, for long, long time.

There is also such as a happy end, good householer. Good how ever, to seek for an end of falling downwardly.

Life on Earth, including humans, strike me as falling upwardly, so to speak. However, individuals have just one certain prospect - death.

As if death would be an end, good householder. If so, people would seek such as an escape, and surely those having such dangerous ideas, do so, meeting the fruits of evil by thoughts, words, speech.

Rather, most seek continuation rather than escape. Hence the popularity of the concept of eternal life, despite there being scant evidence for it.

I would not worry about "evil". That's just concentrated local entropy, which happens from time to time.

Have you always believed in ancient superstitions or were you converted? Why believe in superstitions without solid evidence?

[Paul91]

I think it's better to contemplate if the real outcome will be either the continuation or end of suffering following death. One man's death doesn't end suffering in the world, but will it end suffering for the man? There are other philosophical issues to take into account in that regard.

[Sy Borg]

I think it does end the suffering. We know oblivion well. We not only become oblivious every night, we crave it. I doubt that we will be more awake in death than in deep sleep, although the prelude - the final dance of existence in a dying brain - is unique and can be profound.

[Paul91]

It seems that when people go through general anesthesia, that may be the closest "experience" of death. When one wakes up, there is no memory of anything, not even of time elapsing. You cannot experience non-perception, so let me say this:

There was no experience, therefore the individual experiencer was ABSENT (apart from the unconscious brain tissue). It might be that the individual experiencer was no more or less "there" than their "experience"/non-experience before their own physical conception/birth.

Perhaps there IS experience before conception or after death that is so profound that there is no waking experiential reference point to pin it down, thus zero recall after experience of "unconsciousness".

Thoughts?

[Samana Johann]

Those who have abound the five lower fetters, incl. sensual desire, are incapable of aversive states, and those abound the first three lower fetter are no more able of evil deeds, Noble Ones, good householder. It's right to state that who ever has not arrived at the stream is still able to do the most evil deeds, incl. killing ones parents, holly ones, splitt good apart. Something one is wise to terrible fear, as deeds have effect, evil, for long, long time.

There is also such as a happy end, good householer. Good how ever, to seek for an end of falling downwardly.

Life on Earth, including humans, strike me as falling upwardly, so to speak. However, individuals have just one certain prospect - death.

As if death would be an end, good householder. If so, people would seek such as an escape, and surely those having such dangerous ideas, do so, meeting the fruits of evil by thoughts, words, speech.

Rather, most seek continuation rather than escape. Hence the popularity of the concept of eternal life, despite there being scant evidence for it.

I would not worry about "evil". That's just concentrated local entropy, which happens from time to time.

Have you always believed in ancient superstitions or were you converted? Why believe in superstitions without solid evidence?

Evidence... what evidence of Sublime or even beyond, would an ant, for example have, relay on. How one remembers, perceives, so one thinks, good householder. Everybody not arrived at the Dhamma, the truth, relays simple on superstitions, simply foolish believes, yet there are perceptions leading upwardly and beyond and perception which just nourish wandering on, and those leading downwardly.

Relaying, seeking refuge in what is subject to aging, sickness, decay, while one self is subject of such, isn't smart at all. At least seeking after more lasting refuge, heavens, would be the first wise step, but to go for such requires to see 1. the uselessness of ants-existence and 2. faith into release, that such is possible.

Dhamma is timeless, good householder, yet it is hard to ever see, meet.

It's right that being, "knowing" or total unaware, seek wandering on, nobody else in charge of existance or non-existance then craving and not-knowing, even in realms of Gods, if not put an end to ignorance (not-knowing).

[Samana Johann]

It seems that when people go through general anesthesia, that may be the closest "experience" of death. When one wakes up, there is no memory of anything, not even of time elapsing. You cannot experience non-perception, so let me say this:

There was no experience, therefore the individual experiencer was ABSENT (apart from the unconscious brain tissue). It might be that the individual experiencer was no more or less "there" than their "experience"/non-experience before their own physical conception/birth.

Perhaps there IS experience before conception or after death that is so profound that there is no waking experiential reference point to pin it down, thus zero recall after experience of "unconsciousness".

Thoughts?

How did good householder come here, what made him take birth? Why did he take on account?

[Samana Johann]

It seems that when people go through general anesthesia, that may be the closest "experience" of death. When one wakes up, there is no memory of anything, not even of time elapsing. You cannot experience non-perception, so let me say this:

There was no experience, therefore the individual experiencer was ABSENT (apart from the unconscious brain tissue). It might be that the individual experiencer was no more or less "there" than their "experience"/non-experience before their own physical conception/birth.

Perhaps there IS experience before conception or after death that is so profound that there is no waking experiential reference point to pin it down, thus zero recall after experience of "unconsciousness".

Thoughts?

Within the kinds of Annihilationism or other wrong views, goodhouseholder will find the reasoning behind his idea. To his suggested also Fortuitous-arising:

“There are, monks, devas called Beings without Perception.[19] But, with the arising of perception, they fall from that company of devas. Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness-concentration such that he recollects the arising of perception, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘The self & the cosmos are fortuitously arisen. Why is that? Because before I wasn’t; now I am. Not having been, I sprang into being.’

[Samana Johann]

I think it does end the suffering. We know oblivion well. We not only become oblivious every night, we crave it. I doubt that we will be more awake in death than in deep sleep, although the prelude - the final dance of existence in a dying brain - is unique and can be profound.

It's just that this "refuge" suddenly end with another waking up, another birth, right. And if no more this existance, body, to take on, which renewed existance would he grasp. Every morning fine? Or sometimes awaking heavenly, sometime hell, sometimes from heaven or hell down to earth, sometime like an animal....

[Samana Johann]

Spoken of Syborg, there is given a good lesson on seeds of becoming, good householder. Even audio.

[Sy Borg]

Life on Earth, including humans, strike me as falling upwardly, so to speak. However, individuals have just one certain prospect - death.

As if death would be an end, good householder. If so, people would seek such as an escape, and surely those having such dangerous ideas, do so, meeting the fruits of evil by thoughts, words, speech.

Rather, most seek continuation rather than escape. Hence the popularity of the concept of eternal life, despite there being scant evidence for it.

I would not worry about "evil". That's just concentrated local entropy, which happens from time to time.

Have you always believed in ancient superstitions or were you converted? Why believe in superstitions without solid evidence?

Evidence... what evidence of Sublime or even beyond, would an ant, for example have, relay on. How one remembers, perceives, so one thinks, good householder. Everybody not arrived at the Dhamma, the truth, relays simple on superstitions, simply foolish believes, yet there are perceptions leading upwardly and beyond and perception which just nourish wandering on, and those leading downwardly.

Relaying, seeking refuge in what is subject to aging, sickness, decay, while one self is subject of such, isn't smart at all. At least seeking after more lasting refuge, heavens, would be the first wise step, but to go for such requires to see 1. the uselessness of ants-existence and 2. faith into release, that such is possible.

Dhamma is timeless, good householder, yet it is hard to ever see, meet.

It's right that being, "knowing" or total unaware, seek wandering on, nobody else in charge of existance or non-existance then craving and not-knowing, even in realms of Gods, if not put an end to ignorance (not-knowing).

It's all very well for you, good simian, to denigrate the meaning of an ant's life, to deem it "useless". Ants, like us simians, are part of this planet's great chain of being, whose potentials are greater than we are capable of imagining.

[Sy Borg]

I think it does end the suffering. We know oblivion well. We not only become oblivious every night, we crave it. I doubt that we will be more awake in death than in deep sleep, although the prelude - the final dance of existence in a dying brain - is unique and can be profound.

It's just that this "refuge" suddenly end with another waking up, another birth, right. And if no more this existance, body, to take on, which renewed existance would he grasp. Every morning fine? Or sometimes awaking heavenly, sometime hell, sometimes from heaven or hell down to earth, sometime like an animal....

It's not you who awakens, but someone who is somewhat like you. The "you" that dies simply stops, but the kind of being that you are may reappear (unless you are especially unique and bizarre).

We are all expressions of attributes within a large whole, ie. the biosphere. Some are more dominant or submissive, more destructive or constructive, catalytic or divisive, gregarious or isolated, and such qualities and others are combined in all manner of configurations.

But the dead are gone, ultimately recycled.