Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sushan]

The old saying suggests which of the above is better. But this author is suggesting something superior to both, 'rising above pain'. What is your opinion regarding this third option? What is really meant by it?

To me rising above pain means not allowing pain to be the determining factor of one's decision to live their life. So, say a person was once cheated by his/her significant other. That's very painful. So, the couple ended up separating. The person shouldn't stop trying another relationship again even if it could again result in another painful situation because of the advantages or joy that a new relationship could also bring to his life.

Well, that is quite a way to say it. But learning from experiences include being cautious as well. The person can always try a second relationship. But if he/she is an average human, definitely he/she will remain cautious. And we cannot find fault in that as well.

[Sushan]

I agree with you. I too think what the author says is not totally correct. But why is this hierarchy when it comes to deal with negative things? Can't we choose overcoming a negative thing before choosing to fall back?

Overcoming a negative means you suffered from the negative THEN overcame it. I would prefer to avoid it and not suffer from it.

I see. But what if overcoming comes with eliminating the negative and avoiding comes with the possibility of re-facing the same negative? Won't it be better to face (and feel) it once than doing so more than once?

I don't disagree that there are chronic problems, such as addiction or depression, that are better faced and dealt with once and for all than using short term solutions to a long term problem. But I stand by my post on typical short term issues (which are the majority of problems).

I agree. If we know any particular short term problem has nearly a zero percent chance of recurring, then we can choose to avoid it. But how many of us possess the ability to foresee the future? For chronic problems, as you said, it is better to go for elimination.

[stevie]

Yes and yes.

Thank you very much. But your answer raises more questions in me (sorry for being curious and being too nosy). Don't you have any interests then? Don't you feel happy when you achieve something, or do you get a neutral feeling? (Once again, please keep in mind that you are not obliged to answer as these questions can be personal. Thank you)

There are appearances I pay attention to which is my understanding of "having interest in". E.g. I am reading your post and pay attention to the thoughts that appear. Feelings also are appearances, some of which I pay attention to but I am not seeking particular feelings or identify with them.

I find it quite confusing with the use of the word 'feelings' in two places. You say feelings are appearances, but then you have said about not seeking for particular feelings. Is 'feelings' something superficial, or something deep?

It seems that feeelings are conditioned appearances. If causes and conditions are appropriate particular feelings appear.
One may condition oneself into thinking "If I achieve this or that then I will be happy." but then - having achieved this or that - it is possible that happiness does not appear. Why? Because some conditions are lacking.
Saying "I am not seeking particular feelings" means "I don't let me be deluded by appearing thoughts about doing this or that will entail the appearance of this or that agreeable feeling".

[Sushan]

Thank you very much. But your answer raises more questions in me (sorry for being curious and being too nosy). Don't you have any interests then? Don't you feel happy when you achieve something, or do you get a neutral feeling? (Once again, please keep in mind that you are not obliged to answer as these questions can be personal. Thank you)

There are appearances I pay attention to which is my understanding of "having interest in". E.g. I am reading your post and pay attention to the thoughts that appear. Feelings also are appearances, some of which I pay attention to but I am not seeking particular feelings or identify with them.

I find it quite confusing with the use of the word 'feelings' in two places. You say feelings are appearances, but then you have said about not seeking for particular feelings. Is 'feelings' something superficial, or something deep?

It seems that feeelings are conditioned appearances. If causes and conditions are appropriate particular feelings appear.
One may condition oneself into thinking "If I achieve this or that then I will be happy." but then - having achieved this or that - it is possible that happiness does not appear. Why? Because some conditions are lacking.
Saying "I am not seeking particular feelings" means "I don't let me be deluded by appearing thoughts about doing this or that will entail the appearance of this or that agreeable feeling".

If a person sets conditions that are necessary to be happy in order, he/she should be happy when those self-made conditions are fulfilled. If he/she is still unhappy it means that he/she has added some more conditions by him/herself.

In your case, I understand it simply as being ready for the negative aspect, and it will leave you with no negative feelings even if you actually receive the negative results (failure). It reminds me of the frequent saying of MJ from the new Spider Man movie,

If you expect disappointment, then you can never really be disappointed.