Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Astro Cat]

Oh they are mattering…you just haven’t got the awareness to realise it.

I respectfully disagree that they're mattering. It's hair-splitting.

The field vector direction alters the forces at the 2 poles of a magnetic.So the forces at both ends of a magnet are different.

I mean, sure. Like the gravitational field of Earth affects me differently at sea level than it would affect me at the top of Mt. Everest. The "forces at both locations" are "different." But I think it's obvious what someone is saying when they say it's the same force despite having different outcomes depending on where you are in relation to the field. Likewise with bar magnets, it's the same force on both ends of the magnet. The field vectors are either pointed into or out of the magnet. Technically it's the same field vector going into one side of the magnet that's coming out of the other side. It's the same force.

[Pattern-chaser]

• Absolute perfection is an impossibility
  God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect
  Therefore God is an impossibility.

Can any theists counter the above?

What if absolute perfection is an impossibility for humans, but not for God?

I do not advance this as my own belief, but only as a possible "counter"/reply to your ideas, above, as requested.

[Pattern-chaser]

I mean, sure. Like the gravitational field of Earth affects me differently at sea level than it would affect me at the top of Mt. Everest. The "forces at both locations" are "different." But I think it's obvious what someone is saying when they say it's the same force despite having different outcomes depending on where you are in relation to the field. Likewise with bar magnets, it's the same force on both ends of the magnet. The field vectors are either pointed into or out of the magnet. Technically it's the same field vector going into one side of the magnet that's coming out of the other side. It's the same force.

I tried a similar response here, or in another topic (I don't remember). Our friend simply re-asserts their belief that forces identical except for their direction are different forces. Oh, and that there are exactly TWO - not four, or any other number either - fundamental forces in nature. I think we are wasting our time here; it's like trying to discuss society with a Libertarian...

[Astro Cat]

I tried a similar response here, or in another topic (I don't remember). Our friend simply re-asserts their belief that forces identical except for their direction are different forces. Oh, and that there are exactly TWO - not four, or any other number either - fundamental forces in nature. I think we are wasting our time here;

I wonder what the two forces are proposed to be, if so? Color me intrigued.

it's like trying to discuss society with a Libertarian...

Bahaha. I have this meme on my phone I wish I could share. It's this little snotty kid doing various snooty/condescending arm-crossing poses and the text reads, "Listen, I've read the first 12 pages of Atlas Shrugged so... I think I know a little bit more about economics than you do."

[Jacob10]

Oh they are mattering…you just haven’t got the awareness to realise it.

I respectfully disagree that they're mattering. It's hair-splitting.

The field vector direction alters the forces at the 2 poles of a magnetic.So the forces at both ends of a magnet are different.

I mean, sure. Like the gravitational field of Earth affects me differently at sea level than it would affect me at the top of Mt. Everest. The "forces at both locations" are "different." But I think it's obvious what someone is saying when they say it's the same force despite having different outcomes depending on where you are in relation to the field. Likewise with bar magnets, it's the same force on both ends of the magnet. The field vectors are either pointed into or out of the magnet. Technically it's the same field vector going into one side of the magnet that's coming out of the other side. It's the same force.

No it’s the same magnetic field but the forces are different.if theses forces were identical in every aspect then the 4 off interactions NN….NS…..SN…..SS of 2 magnets would be identical and they are not.

These 2 forces may be equal and opposite but that ain’t identical is it which is what you are incorrectly saying.

[Pattern-chaser]

If theses forces were identical in every aspect...

But they aren't identical. Their direction is different, but that's all.

[Jacob10]

If theses forces were identical in every aspect...

But they aren't identical. Their direction is different, but that's all.

But the …..”but that’s all”…..is why these forces are not identical ….if they were identical as you claim then the 4 off magnet interactions NN…NS…SN…SS would be identical and they are not…..They may be equal and opposite but they definitely are not identical.

Hence natures logic is 0,0…0,1…1,0…1,1 and not 0,1…1,0

[Jacob10]

If they were identical then all magnet interactions NN…NS…SN….SS would repel.

[Pattern-chaser]

If theses forces were identical in every aspect...

But they aren't identical. Their direction is different, but that's all.

But the …..”but that’s all”…..is why these forces are not identical ….if they were identical as you claim then the 4 off magnet interactions NN…NS…SN…SS would be identical and they are not…..They may be equal and opposite but they definitely are not identical.

Hence natures logic is 0,0…0,1…1,0…1,1 and not 0,1…1,0

If your theories are correct, how do you account for me moving the magnets, so that the force that was previously oriented West to East is now oriented East to West, and vice versa? Now the two forces remain the same, but each is reversed in direction. Doesn't this magically turn one force into the other, by your reckoning?

[Jacob10]

Hey I ain’t gonna argue with nature and if the forces are IDENTICAL then we would only observe repulsion for SS…SN…NS…NN magnet interactions.

We don’t.

So that is the bit where your argument falls down.

[Count Lucanor]

Hey, if God exists then good and bad could be different so 0 may not equal 1 and 1 may not equal 0

This is pure non-sequitur combined with other weird stuff and put into a big ball of nonsense.

so the starting point for secularism philosophy and science would be wrong and therefore need to be revised.

I recommend you start reading, perhaps for the first time, about secularism, so that you get to know what it really is, and perhaps you learn something else. Secularism does not equal atheism, as you seem to imply stubbornly.

As you and I can’t definitively prove whether a God exists or not but all we can do is HOPE one way or the other

Speak for yourself. As for myself, even though I don't need to prove anything more than your inability to prove that "God" exists (something you just handed out to me) to support my disbelief, I can definitely prove that a "God" doesn't exist, provided I'm presented with the proposition that I'm supposed to disprove, which includes a description of the entity at issue.

Probably best to be prepared for all possibilities don’t you think?

It is my opinion that the electromagnetic fields that permeate the universe at both the macro and micro levels were around before big bangs and big crunches.BB and BC cannot happen without these fields first being in place in my opinion.If there is a God then that is a possibility don’t you think?

You are drowning in a pool of "affirming the consequent" fallacies: "if A, then B; B, therefore A"

[Jacob10]

Hey, if God exists then good and bad could be different so 0 may not equal 1 and 1 may not equal 0

This is pure non-sequitur combined with other weird stuff and put into a big ball of nonsense.

so the starting point for secularism philosophy and science would be wrong and therefore need to be revised.

I recommend you start reading, perhaps for the first time, about secularism, so that you get to know what it really is, and perhaps you learn something else. Secularism does not equal atheism, as you seem to imply stubbornly.

As you and I can’t definitively prove whether a God exists or not but all we can do is HOPE one way or the other

Speak for yourself. As for myself, even though I don't need to prove anything more than your inability to prove that "God" exists (something you just handed out to me) to support my disbelief, I can definitely prove that a "God" doesn't exist, provided I'm presented with the proposition that I'm supposed to disprove, which includes a description of the entity at issue.

Probably best to be prepared for all possibilities don’t you think?

It is my opinion that the electromagnetic fields that permeate the universe at both the macro and micro levels were around before big bangs and big crunches.BB and BC cannot happen without these fields first being in place in my opinion.If there is a God then that is a possibility don’t you think?

You are drowning in a pool of "affirming the consequent" fallacies: "if A, then B; B, therefore A"

First point…no it isn’t.
Second point ..are you saying secularist are now agnostic or theists then? If not, what are you saying? Do you even know?
Third point…..All you have is a hope that a God exists or doesn’t exist……the same as me.
Fourth point…..I am not drowning in anything…I know how autopilot logic works.

[Count Lucanor]

...are you saying secularist are now agnostic or theists then? If not, what are you saying? Do you even know?

Look up, read, study...it is the only antidote against voluntary ignorance (aka "I just need to think by myself").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_theology

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/seculari ... _b_1699588

https://www.secularism.org.uk/religion-and-state/

[Jacob10]

...are you saying secularist are now agnostic or theists then? If not, what are you saying? Do you even know?

Look up, read, study...it is the only antidote against voluntary ignorance (aka "I just need to think by myself").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_theology

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/seculari ... _b_1699588

https://www.secularism.org.uk/religion-and-state/

Thanks for that….Lets cut to the chase….I still refer you back to my last comment about secularist.Which are they Atheists;Theists or Agnostics??
.

[Sy Borg]

Hey, if God exists then good and bad could be different so 0 may not equal 1 and 1 may not equal 0

This is pure non-sequitur combined with other weird stuff and put into a big ball of nonsense.

Exactly.

God only exists subjectively. This has been made pretty clear by NDEs, which are remarkably similar, whether the dying person is an atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, or Christian. Sometimes there are culturally specific aspects, such a Christians seeing Jesus or Muslims seeing Mohammed before reviving.

"Good" and "bad" are subjective appraisals of local entropy. Nothing to do with deities. Meanwhile, a young child you tell you that 0 does not equal 1 and 1 does not equal 0.

All we can do is HOPE that Zeus, Hera, Poseidon and Aphrodite are real!