Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[JackDaydream]

@gad-fly

I do agree that it is about quality rather than quantity. Ideally, I would rather write one or two posts a day than loads. I find that if I write too many they are often less well thought out.

The problem is that even though there are only a few writing on the forum the pace is still extremely fast. If threads don't catch on straight away they get buried because there are so many being created. I definitely am trying to slow down my pace of creating new threads because others get lost. But, the difficulty is that sometimes apart from the ones in the magic 5 there aren't many active ones. I do read threads which I am not writing in but that gets disappointing when it gets to the point where someone is just saying the same thing over and over again, labouring a point. I probably shouldn't get frustrated in the way that I do and it is probably because I don't have many outlets for interaction at the moment and this may be the case for some other people here. But it is just the combination of few people but with the difficulty of threads disappearing so quickly, which was the starting point for this one. I really enjoy making threads though, because it is the scope for creativity.

I have actually written plenty of times in this one now, so I am almost using it to moan and groan a bit too much. Really, I am grateful for the forum and do appreciate a lot of the discussion I have had already. I want to improve my own contributions and try to make the site as good as possible.

[Roobaba]

I'm back Jack, I managed to stay away for a week. I appreciate what is being said here, as gad-fly has pointed out serious 'deep philosophical thinking' is likely necessarily slow by nature, but does it have to be? What is achieved by taking ones time.. comparing, weighing every word, every sentence, getting to the 'true meaning' after hours of thought and deliberation? (I'm just interested to know what's going on, the 'philosophical process' at work, as a non-philosopher I find it hard to call to hand just the right direct quote or reference that makes for an impressive knowledgeable reply - to me the forums are a sort of philosophical gladiatorial arena where the combatants take sides, often multiple sides are in play, but ultimately it's just people playing the game of 'wise thinking' for the sake of 'wise thinking' none of it produces a 'killer viewpoint' that ends the discussion, as we all know there is no end to it.. no winner, it could be seen as a waste of time, as I often say, I prefer to see real world results, some benefit to humanity! Often the threads just die for lack of anyone willing to bother to continue, not a criticism, I am trying to be analytical to find 'the answer'.) - Back on track.. so as Jack mentions his disappointment (which I share), what we have is when "it gets to the point where someone is just saying the same thing over and over again, labouring a point." (repetition) - the same people keep saying the same things that they hold as their 'valued personal opinions' that they hold dear, backed up by a particular philosophical position, in short they do not change what they think, or the way they think, in view of a certain reply.. as gad-fly has written to be doing 'proper philosophy'. But hey, that's what goes on in life.. until a new paradigm comes along and takes hold, and becomes popular and is fashionable 'capturing the zeitgeist'.

For me, I do like to relate my experiences to others experiences, to compare notes and to employ examples from popular culture that 'Mr MITS' man in the street (or woman too I assume to be PC here) can relate to.. so I'd say watch The Good Place on TV (or on DVD or on streaming etc) see how painful it can be to be someone like Chidi Anagonye, to agonise and deliberate over absolutely everything in your life. Maybe being like Eleanor is not such a bad thing? If you haven't watched The Good Place I recommend you do, it may well relieve your frustrations with the forums as they are here currently.

Could I make a suggestion and ask a question, maybe the long-term members who are still around or if they don't know personally, they ask other ex-members or lapsed forum members if the apparent quietness and lack of regular posters/activity has been normal for this time of year previously. I do agree that it is a dark and depressing time of year, made worse by the demented times we are living in!

[Roobaba]

Just to add, maybe it could help if there was a faster philosophy forum, or would that then just become online 'written rhetoric'? - So do we know those well established and well respected/liked forum contributors who have gone missing and are officially AWOL? I suspect the disliked ones may well not be missed too much.

[gad-fly]

@gad-fly

I do agree that it is about quality rather than quantity. Ideally, I would rather write one or two posts a day than loads. I find that if I write too many they are often less well thought out.

The problem is that even though there are only a few writing on the forum the pace is still extremely fast. If threads don't catch on straight away they get buried

The space for Recent Post allows five titles, but as many as three may appear from the same author within a day or two. The shift of attention is extremely fast. The result: The swarmed forum in not engaging attention is leaking appeal and attention. Is the forum meant to serve quick fix, or is it meant to be philosophical?

[JackDaydream]

@gad-fly

I am inclined to think that the forum is becoming more about quick fixes. Threads come and go so quickly. Also, I get a bit disappointed when people write their own ideas and don't seem to be relating it to any reading. But, I am getting to the point where I wonder if I am expecting too much from the site. It is only the second forum I have ever used and if it had not been for the lockdowns and restrictions I probably would have never used one at all. I am trying to continue using it positively but it does seem that threads are getting knocked out so quickly. I have slowed down my creation of threads but this just means that I will probably use the forum less because often the ones in the five are not ones which I wish to reply to but I guess that some people are completely happy with the forum ,so I will stop moaning...

[JackDaydream]

@gad-fly

I just wish to clarify that when I say that I get disappointed when people just give their ideas I am not saying that philosophy should be approached here as some kind of academic pursuit. It could be extremely dull and it is so interesting to hear the unique voices. What I am feeling is that I just wish for discussion to go a bit deeper, but I suppose everyone feels a bit differently and some may hate some of my long answers. I guess the problem is that everyone comes with different hopes and expectations. I do feel that I have learned a lot from the exchange of ideas which I had in my 4 monthz of using it and I definitely found it better in December than this year.

But I have found January to be a bit of a monster of a month this year, so I am relieved its February and perhaps it will bring all kinds of inspiration and creative possibilities.

[LuckyR]

gad-fly

I do agree that it is about quality rather than quantity. Ideally, I would rather write one or two posts a day than loads. I find that if I write too many they are often less well thought out.

The problem is that even though there are only a few writing on the forum the pace is still extremely fast. If threads don't catch on straight away they get buried

The space for Recent Post allows five titles, but as many as three may appear from the same author within a day or two. The shift of attention is extremely fast. The result: The swarmed forum in not engaging attention is leaking appeal and attention. Is the forum meant to serve quick fix, or is it meant to be philosophical?

I never use the Recent Posts button, rather I use Your Posts to follow what are my active threads, and Unread Posts, to find new (to me) threads/posts. True it requires some scrolling, but since I review just about every day, it isn't that much work.

[JackDaydream]

@LuckyR
It is good to know that not everyone just uses the others
are not just 'dead' threads. It may come up differently on various devices, depending on the browser. It is interesting when older threads spring into life again. I definitely read some going back a long way ago and find some extremely interesting. It is hard to know whether to try to resuscitate the old discussions, especially if the author has not written for a long time, but I may try it because the person might get an email out of the blue and respond.

[gad-fly]

gad-fly

I do agree that it is about quality rather than quantity. Ideally, I would rather write one or two posts a day than loads. I find that if I write too many they are often less well thought out.

The problem is that even though there are only a few writing on the forum the pace is still extremely fast. If threads don't catch on straight away they get buried

The space for Recent Post allows five titles, but as many as three may appear from the same author within a day or two. The shift of attention is extremely fast. The result: The swarmed forum in not engaging attention is leaking appeal and attention. Is the forum meant to serve quick fix, or is it meant to be philosophical?

I never use the Recent Posts button, rather I use Your Posts to follow what are my active threads, and Unread Posts, to find new (to me) threads/posts. True it requires some scrolling, but since I review just about every day, it isn't that much work.

Sorry for my mistake. I should have tapped Recent Topics instead of Recent Post. Recent Topics is on the very top of the Forum.

[gad-fly]

maybe it could help if there was a faster philosophy forum, or would that then just become online 'written rhetoric'?

How fast? Say the five titles on Recent Topics refreshed every day, with no stay allowed? Surely It would give some of us a high, but I doubt if the high can be classified as philosophy.

[JackDaydream]

maybe it could help if there was a faster philosophy forum, or would that then just become online 'written rhetoric'?

How fast? Say the five titles on Recent Topics refreshed every day, with no stay allowed? Surely It would give some of us a high, but I doubt if the high can be classified as philosophy.

I am writing this to you because I am so demoralised by the forum and I think that the fast turnover of threads may be one of the problems. Recently, I was astounded by the way in which one of my threads was in the five for about 5 days. Generally, though, it is as if this site is at the end of its days while 'The Philosophy Forum' is thriving. However, that often seems so shallow. I am still using this site but it seems like it is fading away, like the dying of civilisation itself. Ecology is in in peril, war and its consequences loom before us and even this site seems to be coming to an end...I would love to contribute to this site, but not sure how longer I wish to do so. That is because the one person who replies to me more than anyone else claims that I am speculating and writing gibberish. I wish to engage in serious philosophy discussion but there appear to be only a handful of people who do and they are usually the moderators.

[Sy Borg]

That is because the one person who replies to me more than anyone else claims that I am speculating and writing gibberish. I wish to engage in serious philosophy discussion but there appear to be only a handful of people who do and they are usually the moderators.

Some people cannot tolerate speculation, which is why they try to discourage it with words like "gibberish". For the record, I have tended to enjoy your contributions so far. You are smart, passionate, interested and you have ideas.

Sometimes, when people give me crap, it gets a bit much and I have to take a break. I took a break a couple of weeks ago for that reason. It was one hit after another, from various people, each going for the jugular, and it brought me down.

[JackDaydream]

That is because the one person who replies to me more than anyone else claims that I am speculating and writing gibberish. I wish to engage in serious philosophy discussion but there appear to be only a handful of people who do and they are usually the moderators.

Some people cannot tolerate speculation, which is why they try to discourage it with words like "gibberish". For the record, I have tended to enjoy your contributions so far. You are smart, passionate, interested and you have ideas.

Sometimes, when people give me crap, it gets a bit much and I have to take a break. I took a break a couple of weeks ago for that reason. It was one hit after another, from various people, each going for the jugular, and it brought me down.

Thanks for your reply and I definitely noticed that you were missing from the forum. It may be that some people who are not writing presently need a break too. I may need a break too but I guess that I am in a strange place in life, in which forum interaction seems important because so much of 'real life' is on hold, and it may be that some of the people who were writing so frequently are getting back into the swing of 'real life' activities.

Generally, I appreciate this forum and 'The Philosophy Forum' and I am still getting used to people coming from the mode of 'attack'. When I write it is not with a view to me claiming that I am in a superior position of knowing the 'truth'. Philosophy may be more collaborative, involving juggling of ideas and perspectives. The way in which people discuss ideas and viewpoints online is so different from face to face discussion.

In most cases, some of us may write posts and threads which are variable in quality. I know that if I write too many in one day or if I am tired they tend to be of poorer quality. It is probably a case of hanging on because there are ups and downs and the moments where ideas are vital in philosophy for life are to be appreciated. The lesser moments where there are grey areas of monotony and philosophical knots which cannot be untied, may be part of the process of thinking in it's most critical sense. It may be about going forward, pausing and waiting to see what happens next.

[Sy Borg]

Philosophy may be more collaborative, involving juggling of ideas and perspectives. The way in which people discuss ideas and viewpoints online is so different from face to face discussion.

Exactly, bouncing ideas off each other. I'm not a huge fan of a forum where people simply regurgitate well-established facts to each other. I once tried a physics forum, just hoping to ask questions about how some things work. Geez, even if you explain you're just a newbie and hoping to learn, just one mistake and the gatekeepers come crashing down on you with waves of autistic disproportionality. So one stops asking them questions.

It's what I think of as the tyranny of professionalism, which has unfortunately resulted in a postmodern lashback. On one hand there's an attitude that, if one engages in an activity - be it wondering about philosophy, the universe or even playing a musical instrument - in an unprofessional way, then a person is deemed to be wasting their time. Science-informed intuition is unfashionable, quickly labelled as pseudoscience. Thus, the uneducated must never challenge the ideas of the educated. There's been a rebellion to that elitism - because being educated is not the same as being infallible - and the pushback entirely refutes the value of expertise, instead promoting individualism, elevating individual opinion to unsustainable highs.

In the meantime, the middle ground is there. Personally, I just enjoy chatting with people who are interested in the nature of reality. Most people are either too practical for such things or they are professionals (plus their hangers on).

[JackDaydream]

Philosophy may be more collaborative, involving juggling of ideas and perspectives. The way in which people discuss ideas and viewpoints online is so different from face to face discussion.

Exactly, bouncing ideas off each other. I'm not a huge fan of a forum where people simply regurgitate well-established facts to each other. I once tried a physics forum, just hoping to ask questions about how some things work. Geez, even if you explain you're just a newbie and hoping to learn, just one mistake and the gatekeepers come crashing down on you with waves of autistic disproportionality. So one stops asking them questions.

It's what I think of as the tyranny of professionalism, which has unfortunately resulted in a postmodern lashback. On one hand there's an attitude that, if one engages in an activity - be it wondering about philosophy, the universe or even playing a musical instrument - in an unprofessional way, then a person is deemed to be wasting their time. Science-informed intuition is unfashionable, quickly labelled as pseudoscience. Thus, the uneducated must never challenge the ideas of the educated. There's been a rebellion to that elitism - because being educated is not the same as being infallible - and the pushback entirely refutes the value of expertise, instead promoting individualism, elevating individual opinion to unsustainable highs.

In the meantime, the middle ground is there. Personally, I just enjoy chatting with people who are interested in the nature of reality. Most people are either too practical for such things or they are professionals (plus their hangers on).

When I first joined a forum in 2020, I presumed that it would be 'chatting' about ideas. I was fortunate that the first discussions which I got involved people who were fairly flexible. That is how I engage about ideas in real life. I was rather surprised when several months later that I discovered many people on that forum to be rather dogmatic in the way they were approaching ideas, independently of the content of the ideas themselves. There often seems to be a big divide between those who approach philosophy as a formal discipline and those who barely seem to get into any depth of analysis at all. Both are extremes and I am looking for something beyond the two and, ideally, some kind of approach which involves reflecting upon life.

At times, I do get despondent about this and the other forum which I use. The worst scenario is when I am awake in the night and pick up my phone and log in and get so wound up over some thread discussion. My friends in real life must be getting fed up with me moaning and groaning about some response which I have had in a philosophy website. However, they have not suggested that I should not be using the sites because they are aware of the way in which many discussions which I had have been worthwhile. I guess that the main thing is to be able to find the good aspects and avoid the negative as far as possible, a bit like being at a party and having to work out who to avoid and who to talk to. I guess the addictive aspects of looking at the site can be problematic too, as the sites run on day and night because people are in different time zones, making it a bit like reality television. However, such interaction does still have the wonderful possibilities of communication with people across great distances in the world, with whom one would never be likely to cross pathways in daily experience.