Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[gad-fly]

The trouble with perpetual topics - or sticky topics in forum parlance - is they become impenetrable. No one will read through hundreds of pages. Consider that you make a highly pertinent and original remark on page fifty in a thread that reaches a hundred or more pages. Practically, the posting is lost, buried, mostly only accessible via internet searches.

Anyway, that's up to Scott and also the developers of the forum's open source code templates.

I am somewhat disappointed by the replies, consisting of "I admit . . .", "I enjoy . . .", and so on. I would welcome more pro-active suggestion on Reform, and on necessary action. This is not about you.

I agree with your "The trouble is . . ." above, but what is your proposal? Leaving everything to Scott is unfair. We have to offer him a helping hand. We do not sit on our hands, crying Wolf.

It's Scott's forum. I have modded for him for a fair few years and his lack of presence here makes clear that he has found other priorities. This forum seems to be the legacy of an old project from which he's mostly moved on.

I've done similar. I used to work in OH&S and kept the anti-bullying site I'd made up for some years after shifting to a different field. The site would still be up today except that the legislative references were getting out of date. Scott doesn't have that issue to deal with, so the forum remains.

I don't understand what the request is.

I disagree with the claim that I ab absent. I respond promptly to every PM sent to me. Additionally, a usage of the search feature will show that I created 37 forum topics in 2021:

search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=S ... mit=Search

In fact, I literally just posted a topic less than two weeks ago:

The Beautiful Anxiety of the Butterfly (Posted December 31st, 2021)


The forum has a tagging feature that works like this: @Sy Borg and @gad-fly, which sends a PM-like notification to the tagged person, which will help increase the chances that they see the post in question. As of now, this forum has over 14,000 topics, and 386,864 posts. So no person especially not me reads even a significant fraction of them, let alone all them all. I find it odd that these personal speculations about me and my alleged absence would be made without at least tagging me in those conversations about me.

As for the concerns or suggestions about topic ordering and post, that is mostly controlled be each user individually in the Edit Display Options section of the Board Preferences Tab in the User Control Panel.

It is not so much a request than a suggestion of room for improvement. It is in the nature of all creative institutions to flourish through timely refreshing and replenishing.

I have initiated this post on Reform, and I will be held ultimately responsible for any misunderstanding and confusion. Scott: None can contribute more than you, in time, effort, and money. Admittedly my reply to your posts are few and insignificant, but your posts have always attracted my eyeball, except those on book club which I have not joined.

As an idea and a gesture on Reform, how about avoiding the duplication of Book Club Post on Recent Post? Each has five. Duplication of two would reduce readily available posts from 10 to 8.

I can appreciate if there is difficulty doing so. I may discern more room for improvement, and I may voice out later here. I can be stopped any time. No sweat. No hard feeling. Greta should know. I have not heard from her for a while.

[Gertie]

My suggestion has been made before, but I still think the restrictions on noobs are too stringent. It's off-putting and often confusing.

We see peeps register, make a post or two and give up. I nearly gave up myself, waiting for posts to be approved was irritating.

It would probably reduce the work for mods. I don't honestly think there are hoardes of trolls itching to get on this board, and bots can quickly be dealth I assume.

It would be good to have more noobs stick around, and we make it a pain to rather than being welcoming.

[JackDaydream]

@Gee

I do wonder if having to have posts approved does put new members off. What I disliked was being called a trial member because it felt like being on probation when starting a new job. But, I can see the purpose because it wouldn't be good if people came along and wrote ridiculous things.

What is bothering me is how few people are using the forum, especially in the last few weeks. Some of the ones who were using it seem to have vanished. At first, I thought that it was due to Christmas and New Year, but we are now half way through January. I was glad to find new people on a couple of my threads and I hope that they will stick around. I do wonder if it is because threads fade so quickly and people are often only writing on a few ones. The reason why I keep starting threads is because there is often so little going on and I probably wouldn't be writing here if I could find some stimulating discussion. However, I am trying to slow down in writing new threads because I don't wish to knock others down and it is hard for threads to remain in the five for more than 2 days. I may create a new one when my recent one is next in line to be kicked away. But, at the moment, I am feeling disappointed by the forum. I also get disappointed when people only write a few words in reply, but I do realise that many people may get equally irritated by my tendency to write essay responses.

[Gertie]

I appreciate people who come up with new threads and make thoughtful replies. The prob is that with a small user base it gets repetitive. I know I'm repetitive! New blood is refreshing, but instead of welcoming noobs we give them irritating hoops to jump through.

[JackDaydream]

@Gertie

I am so sorry but I think that I tried to reply to you but sent the reply to someone else rather than you because I was tired. I am probably one of the worst offenders because I have come to the forum and have created many threads. At first, I was not paying much attention to the way in which new threads knock other ones down. So, I am trying to make sure that in the future that I only occupy 1 of the 5 seats in the importance 5 current ones.

I am trying to create less threads and if I think that I am a nuisance, I will go away from the forum but I really want discussion about philosophy. I think that so many people who were using the forum are going away and I hope that it is not my fault for having created too many threads. Partly, I do it because on another forum which I use people create so many threads. I came across someone who wrote 26 threads in one week, which is ridiculous from my point of view. You may wonder why I am using this forum if another is so busy. It is not simple because it can be rather overwhelming to be on a forum where about 300 people are writing regularly. Sometimes, I write threads there and I get so many replies that I don't know where to begin replying to them.

So, as a member who has joined in the last few months I apologise for creating many threads. I am genuinely looking for discussion and I have created another thread today because the fast turnover means that threads only stay on the top for about a couple of days and most of the threads which are being created are thought experiments. I am sure that many people enjoy these but I struggle to cope with thoughts, let alone thought experiments Whenever I have replied to the person who writes them I don't get any replies. As a fairly new member, having joined last July, I would love to be involved in so much discussion but it seems that people are vanishing from the forum. Personally, I want to stick around on the forum to explore philosophy, which is my passion, but I wish to contribute rather than bring the site down.

So, I am left wondering how does any one of us affect the quality of the site? I would rather look to improving my own writing rather than simply blame moderators. I would like to contribute to discussion in a positive way[

I am aware that some of my own posts and threads are better than others, so I am interested in thinking about the way in which any of us can improve to make the site better, in terms of quality and not necessarily quantity. So, I see this thread as not simply being about forum reform but about any contributions which any of us make, because so many people seem to be fading away from the forum and, potentially, it is such a positive platform for exchange of ideas.

[Robert66]

I am one who is in the process of vanishing from the site. I have checked in from time to time, found the usual predictible responses from the usual short list of posters, considered whether I could be bothered getting involved, remembered how pointless previous "discussions" have been, and have left again. As in life generally, people much prefer to talk than to listen, are not interested in understanding another point of view, but don't mind repeating themselves. I will likely continue checking in as I do enjoy reading the posts of some contributors, but I agree with Gertie about problems of a small user base and an offputting rather than welcoming approach to new members.

[Roobaba]

I often wonder if I am significant even in the slightest way. I exist, I think, therefore I am. I'm here now, as a noob a 'testy trial member' I have found the hoops to jump through that Gertie refers to.. it's not encouraging I have to say, the delay between posting and the post being accepted by the moderators is to say the least, very frustrating. But, as has been said already, necessary, at least I assume it has been thought about in the past and decided that it's required even if it puts new people, 'new refreshing blood' off staying here. I am like JackDaydream, I am full of questions that I can't keep in, I have to ask them or at least discuss what's on my mind.. I can see it may not be the best place on a 'thoughtful' philosophy forum such as this. But (I've just used but again, I do hope I'm not being repetitive - sarcasm there.. ) - as a quick aside, I do admire the forum posters who use quotes within quotes within quotes.. so confusing to the non-philosopher (I'm joking). I'm trying to be quick and get to the point, however that's not my style. JackDaydream don't apologise, I truly appreciate all of your new threads, as a compulsive thread started I would be doing the same.. BUT as I have seen on the Philosophers Lounge several = Roobaba as the last poster makes me look like I'm hogging the forum.. the truth is it's quiet and nobody else is there posting to push my replies down.. and anyway as somebody said - nobody scrolls all the way down to the bottom where resides all the 'trashy' stuff, the 'less than philosophical detritus' put on by less than Philosophy grade posters (such as me - no degree, nothing more than your average school education, it doesn't bother me, but does to some people who have to read what us 'common people' have to say, namely nothing worth reading, certainly nothing worth replying to, or even thinking about) - (again I'm exaggerating for effect.. BUT not far above my reply I did read that even the serious heavyweights of the forum don't think about, let alone think about in any depth, what others say.. apparently that's what people are like.. even those we would like to respect as 'deep thinking thoughtful people'.. people I'd like to be around, to get to know, to call my friend and to enjoy their company). I'm here because I was told it's where they (someone I have met locally in RL) enjoy talking all things philosophical.. to some it's talking shop, a busman's (or buswomen's) holiday.. they 'do philosophy' for a day job, they get paid to do it too.. woowee! That person who recommended I come here (that was over a year and a half ago now) it appears has become absent, no longer posting regularly, at least looking back at his posts they had been frequent for several years. This person who shall remain nameless (and may well reappear, he may just be on a sabbatical) impressed me mightily with a talk he had prepared for 'the layman' on Einstein's Theory of Relativity and another talk on The Double-slit Experiment (he used to be a science teacher I do believe) anyway he started a discussion group, but then much like Scott vanished leaving others to keep things going, which they (one person) did admirably. From what I have been told it was 'life problems' that caused the disappearance. As Scott has said he is very much still here, thank you Scott I really appreciate these forums!

So, as JackDaydream has said, I think we would all much rather meet up face to face to talk philosophy. I feel so lucky to have a local 'thinkers' group that meet up once a month (pandemic disruption/restrictions notwithstanding) in a regional UK town the chances are generally not in favour of a group existing, lucky Jack being in or close to London must have a choice of many. What I am saying here, getting to the point (or one of them) is that we should appreciate what we have got here online, despite the seemingly infinite internet it has limitations.. forums such as here do not proliferate, despite the fact we would like them to. Before finding this thread (I tried to have a week off having been put off by a slow-to-be-approved thread, in protest I decided to keep away.. BUT simply had to return to see what I'd missed) I thought (assumed) everything here was all good, it appears though that it is not. I'm feeling decidedly unhappy now at the prospect of possibly losing these forums, it would be such a shame. I'm not certain but I would not be surprised to find it's the 'modern way', short attention span, the short form Tik-Tok video mentality even amongst seasoned 'old timers' retired with time on their hands have been manipulated by the all-pervading incipient 'smartphone' culture of shallow 'fun times' no thinking required instant gratification culture/society we live in. I fear sites such as this may suffer a slow lingering death. If so, then so be it.

I personally come from an interest in a scientific world view, although I would prefer we come up with something 'new and improved' a pattern-seeker would find the better way.. reform philosophy forums to be more inclusive of science/logic/reason - Jack's Unholy Trinity for me would/should be Philosophy, Science and Politics. I study the future, I'm trying to see that humanity is making progress towards a 'bright shiny Star Trek future', unfortunately all I see now are things going into reverse, including the decline of online discussion forums!

I'm currently reading 'a book for our times' - Exact Thinking in Demented Times by Karl Sigmund (I will search for Logical Empiricism here and also may well start a new thread to discuss the all-powerful 'scientific world view' vs the 'stuffy philosophical traditions' (no mention of religion.. aha God is dead.. not that he/she/it ever existed an imagining of primitive people a long long time ago!).

For those seeking something worthwhile from this seemingly 'limited' discussion I'd recommend a Google search for 'PC 120: Life in the Universe Humanity’s Insignificance: The Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything' and to further the aims of the thread, namely to reform these forums, to find possible help to achieve what is being sought but not knowing what it is exactly we seek, search for 'developing public policy with randomised control trials'.

Roobaba has now finished you will be pleased to know, apologies for the lengthy rambling post!

[Gertie]

@Gertie

I am so sorry but I think that I tried to reply to you but sent the reply to someone else rather than you because I was tired. I am probably one of the worst offenders because I have come to the forum and have created many threads. At first, I was not paying much attention to the way in which new threads knock other ones down. So, I am trying to make sure that in the future that I only occupy 1 of the 5 seats in the importance 5 current ones.

I am trying to create less threads and if I think that I am a nuisance, I will go away from the forum but I really want discussion about philosophy. I think that so many people who were using the forum are going away and I hope that it is not my fault for having created too many threads. Partly, I do it because on another forum which I use people create so many threads. I came across someone who wrote 26 threads in one week, which is ridiculous from my point of view. You may wonder why I am using this forum if another is so busy. It is not simple because it can be rather overwhelming to be on a forum where about 300 people are writing regularly. Sometimes, I write threads there and I get so many replies that I don't know where to begin replying to them.

So, as a member who has joined in the last few months I apologise for creating many threads. I am genuinely looking for discussion and I have created another thread today because the fast turnover means that threads only stay on the top for about a couple of days and most of the threads which are being created are thought experiments. I am sure that many people enjoy these but I struggle to cope with thoughts, let alone thought experiments Whenever I have replied to the person who writes them I don't get any replies. As a fairly new member, having joined last July, I would love to be involved in so much discussion but it seems that people are vanishing from the forum. Personally, I want to stick around on the forum to explore philosophy, which is my passion, but I wish to contribute rather than bring the site down.

So, I am left wondering how does any one of us affect the quality of the site? I would rather look to improving my own writing rather than simply blame moderators. I would like to contribute to discussion in a positive way[

I am aware that some of my own posts and threads are better than others, so I am interested in thinking about the way in which any of us can improve to make the site better, in terms of quality and not necessarily quantity. So, I see this thread as not simply being about forum reform but about any contributions which any of us make, because so many people seem to be fading away from the forum and, potentially, it is such a positive platform for exchange of ideas.

I don't think you're a nuisance, as I said I appreciate people starting new threads, esp newbies as some of us are all too familiar now with each other's views

As for the quality of posts, that's going to be hit and miss. As someone without much philosophical education I've picjked up lots of ideas to explore, but probably not contributed that much. But I think if you contribute thoughtfully and in good faith that's fine.

[JackDaydream]

@Gertie

Thanks for your reply and I am glad that you don't see me as a nuisance in creating threads because I do enjoy thinking of them and developing them on a range of topics in philosophy. I am currently thinking a bit along @glad-fly's point of view of the shifting of the top 5 being a big problem. That is because my recent thread got more replies than the other ones I started and that may have been because it managed to stay on the front for over 4 days, while my previous ones got kicked down in less than 2 days. But, today 3 new threads were created and mine has gone. It may mean no one ever replies or looks at it again. It can happen so easily if the threads are not established well.

This does make me wonder if people who come new to the forum create threads and leave for this reason. I have other ideas for threads but I don't want to shove others out of the way. Of course, I am wishing to be involved in others' threads and listening to others' interests but it does sometimes feel like a market place. But, I wouldn't wish for there to be no opportunity to start new threads. If that was the case, I would certainly not wish to bother with the forum at all, because there would be no scope for innovation and creativity at all. I am just puzzled why some people who were writing frequently seem to vanished recently as if they were kidnapped by Santa Claus over Christmas, or left the planet entirely.

[Gertie]

@Gertie

Thanks for your reply and I am glad that you don't see me as a nuisance in creating threads because I do enjoy thinking of them and developing them on a range of topics in philosophy. I am currently thinking a bit along @glad-fly's point of view of the shifting of the top 5 being a big problem. That is because my recent thread got more replies than the other ones I started and that may have been because it managed to stay on the front for over 4 days, while my previous ones got kicked down in less than 2 days. But, today 3 new threads were created and mine has gone. It may mean no one ever replies or looks at it again. It can happen so easily if the threads are not established well.

This does make me wonder if people who come new to the forum create threads and leave for this reason. I have other ideas for threads but I don't want to shove others out of the way. Of course, I am wishing to be involved in others' threads and listening to others' interests but it does sometimes feel like a market place. But, I wouldn't wish for there to be no opportunity to start new threads. If that was the case, I would certainly not wish to bother with the forum at all, because there would be no scope for innovation and creativity at all. I am just puzzled why some people who were writing frequently seem to vanished recently as if they were kidnapped by Santa Claus over Christmas, or left the planet entirely.
[Gertie
You can always give a thread a cheeky bump if you think it has legs

[JackDaydream]

I am writing this thread because I have spent today using the site and have felt so despondent with it. I have managed to have some worthwhile discussion on the site since I joined, so, whatever, I do feel that I have gained benefit from it. I have also had some discussion with new members in the last few days and hoping that they stick around.

I have definitely felt that the site was so much better up until about a month ago and since New Year it has been really less active. So, something must be going wrong unless it is merely a time of winter blues. My own issue has been partly that when reading threads they don't read very well in many instances because there is often so little philosophy arguments. It can be a mixture of inflammatory statements and repetition.

I am sure that my own threads and posts have plenty of room for improvement. I wish to improve but I am interested to know what people think about the site in the last few weeks because it is a shame if people come to the site and don't feel it is worth staying. I do wish to continue using it because I see it as a fantastic platform and so, I am writing this rather than simply looking elsewhere for philosophy discussion. It definitely seems that the site membership is shrivelling rapidly.

[gad-fly]

It definitely seems that the site membership is shrivelling rapidly.

strictly speaking, site membership does not shrivel here. Once a member, always a member, unless kicked out. It would be a sad day if the worth of this forum is measured by the abundance of views and replies. This forum is not a profitable concern with box office revenue, or even a newspaper to serve public interest. The volume of Readership is of secondary importance. It can be small and vibrant, and I hope it can stay that way. i may eve say: the smaller, the better.

I can understand the disappointment of those looking for a fight here, or seeking the thrill of flooding out other posts with two or three of their own. I would bid them farewell. Go ahead, Find and stretch out where you belong.

I do not know whether Scott has some mission statement in mind when he created this forum. I would visualize the mission beyond entertainment and punch bag, to provide and serve as genuine platform for serious exchange and insight of the serious thinkers. That is what I have in mind when I commence this post.

[JackDaydream]

@Wandering Gaze

You are right that members have not gone and may return. Perhaps it really is that time of year when people are feeling a bit low. I know that I have been feeling down a lot this month. It is hard to know to what extent it being a small group is good or not. I would say that I choose to use this site more than 'The Philosophy Forum' because that gets too busy. There are about 300 members there.
It seems that there are only about 15 people using the site regularly now and it is if my thread fizzles in about 2 days it does feel rather disappointing and, I start to feel a failure. I definitely don't come to the site for fights but I do wish to have some worthwhile interaction about philosophy. I have had some recently but far less than a couple of months ago. But, maybe there will be more happening next month and I will be less grungy.

[JackDaydream]

@gad-fly

Sorry I meant to send the post above to @gad-fly and I am not sure why I put Wanderinģ Gaze. I think that I am a bit tired.

[gad-fly]

@Wandering Gaze

You are right that members have not gone and may return. Perhaps it really is that time of year when people are feeling a bit low. I know that I have been feeling down a lot this month. It is hard to know to what extent it being a small group is good or not. I would say that I choose to use this site more than 'The Philosophy Forum' because that gets too busy. There are about 300 members there.
It seems that there are only about 15 people using the site regularly now and it is if my thread fizzles in about 2 days it does feel rather disappointing and, I start to feel a failure. I definitely don't come to the site for fights but I do wish to have some worthwhile interaction about philosophy. I have had some recently but far less than a couple of months ago. But, maybe there will be more happening next month and I will be less grungy.

If I may propose a mission for this site, one specification is that it is not where every issue, big or small, is treated in a heated rush. I take philosophy as serious, deep, and time consuming. How? It is like marriage. Till death do we part, but not a one-night stand, or stand-up comedy. How do you compare titles like "Do we need prison?", "climate change", "pandemic", and so on with "how seriously do you take this book?" You are fair? You weight them equally? Two days attention span each! Fine, but don't count me in. I am a slow hand, as far as philosophy is concerned. i have to catch my breath. I digest very slowly, because I savor the taste.
let me emphasize. Small is better. Quality, not quantity. One new post in 10 days rather than 5 every other day. 15 people, or even fewer, is fine for me, as long as they are genuine thinkers.