Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Greatest I am]

As for God itself, the OT is replete with its frequent unnecessarily violent atrocities. You can't whitewash that with a feelgood second testament. That's akin to a rapist offering his victim a bunch of flowers and a box of chocolates.

I go along with everything else you wrote. Fine. This is that part I questioned in my post. The perspective is a human one. Of course from our perspective floods and famines seem horrible. Death seems terrible to us mortals. But if God knows what will happen when we die, is death horrible to Him? And if it isn't terrible to Him -- if, indeed, it is rebirth to a better place for those He loves -- why would all of those slaughters constitute "atrocities"?

The Problem of Pain seems a more difficult one for Christian apologists than a few billion killings, which might, after all, be a kindness to the departed.
I'm not saying any of this is true -- just that, given the story, my apologetic seems logically sound.

There is nothing logically or morally sound in a god who can cure just as easily as kill yet always chooses to kill.

Any who advocate for the genocidal Yahweh, or his homophobic and misogynous religions, are moral misfits.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

The creation of the universe is history, and you can't change history. Either at least one God with knowledge; power and a purpose created the universe and life, or it all happened purely by natural causes. You could be a hundred percent right or wrong on the toss of a coin. There cannot be a maybe or probable God.

[quote=Belindi post_

The recent child abuse scandals in churches, and subsequent cover ups and lack of justice and mercy among senior churchmen is ample evidence of toxic corporations.

Most church goers are saddened and shocked that this happened. But when these people abandon God and do what they choose to do; how can you blame God when they go against God's commands?

Shocked? Perhaps.

More like eager to make the rape of their child into a paid for prostitute situation, as they reach out for the large settlements that allow the perpetrator the freedom to find his next prostitute/victim.

Parents selling out their children is the Christian thing to do.

Yahweh had his child needlessly murdered, so Christians can make prostitutes out of the victims of pedophiles.

Yahweh and Jesus would approve.

The Gnostic Jesus would condemn all.

Regards
DL


j

[EricPH]

There is nothing logically or morally sound in a god who can cure just as easily as kill yet always chooses to kill.

Does science and phylosophy teach us to ignore all the evidence we don't want to see; in order for us to come up with our own biased conclusions?

[JackDaydream]

@EricPH
The problem is there is not clear evidence about religious ideas and this means that it is speculation. Being honest and authentic, I have found that my thinking on the existence of God has shifted many times. I am inclined to believe in some form of anthropic principle but I am not sure about the anthropomorphic pictures, of God, apart from in the form of Jesus. But, in general, there is the question whether human beings were made in likeness of God, or whether humanity created ideas of God based on their own nature?

Saying that, I am not opposed to religious ideas and do believe that it captures important aspects of truth, often symbolic ones. Personally, I am fascinated by religious ideas and embrace the realm of comparative religion. I was brought up as a Catholic, and I do still go to church at times. However, I do love reading about Eastern religions traditions and I am planning to go to a Quaker meeting as being a form of Christian service without the rituals and, involving silent contemplation.

[EricPH]

I have just come back from the midnight church service where we sang Silent Night. It sends a shiver down my spine when I think back to the Christmas Truce in the trenches during WW1; and the Germans started to sing Silent Niight which started the truce. We search for hope that something good can come from adversity.

Wishing you all good health, peace and happiness for Christmas and the coming year.

[Greatest I am]

There is nothing logically or morally sound in a god who can cure just as easily as kill yet always chooses to kill.

Does science and philosophy teach us to ignore all the evidence we don't want to see; in order for us to come up with our own biased conclusions?

You likely mean biases, and yes they do hinder better thinking.

Note how the religious biases create homophobia and misogyny and the need for the religious to hate their gay children and reduce the value of their girls.

What evidence are we discussing?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

@EricPH
The problem is there is not clear evidence about religious ideas and this means that it is speculation. Being honest and authentic, I have found that my thinking on the existence of God has shifted many times. I am inclined to believe in some form of anthropic principle but I am not sure about the anthropomorphic pictures, of God, apart from in the form of Jesus. But, in general, there is the question whether human beings were made in likeness of God, or whether humanity created ideas of God based on their own nature?

Saying that, I am not opposed to religious ideas and do believe that it captures important aspects of truth, often symbolic ones. Personally, I am fascinated by religious ideas and embrace the realm of comparative religion. I was brought up as a Catholic, and I do still go to church at times. However, I do love reading about Eastern religions traditions and I am planning to go to a Quaker meeting as being a form of Christian service without the rituals and, involving silent contemplation.

Seems like a decent overall ideology.

Does your ideology include a clause that says you should raise hell against evil religions?

This, --- for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing, --- is a part of my ideology/theology, given that I call myself a Gnostic Christian.

Does yours, and how do you exercise that degrading chore?

This last question, I send to all.

Regards
DL

[EricPH]

Does your ideology include a clause that says you should raise hell against evil religions?

Mine doesn’t, does yours?

This, --- for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing,

When people use guns, then evil can grow, good people tend not to use guns. Hermann Goering summed up how evil people take power.

Hermann Goering

Why of course the people don’t want to go to war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can hope for is to come back to his farm in one piece.
Naturally the common people don’t want war, neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood.

But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether in a democracy, fascist dictatorship or a parliament or a communist dictatorship.

Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

"Greatest I am" post
This, --- for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing, --- is a part of my ideology/theology, given that I call myself a Gnostic Christian.

Does yours, and how do you exercise that degrading chore?

This last question, I send to all.

I believe in Christian Unity and a greater interfaith cooperation when working towards the common good. In our town the faith communities have opened up five houses for the homeless, they organise the food bank, organise and run food programmes for underprivileged children and much more.

[Greatest I am]

Does your ideology include a clause that says you should raise hell against evil religions?

Mine doesn’t, does yours?

This, --- for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing,

When people use guns, then evil can grow, good people tend not to use guns. Hermann Goering summed up how evil people take power.

Hermann Goering

Why of course the people don’t want to go to war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can hope for is to come back to his farm in one piece.
Naturally the common people don’t want war, neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood.

But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether in a democracy, fascist dictatorship or a parliament or a communist dictatorship.

Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

"Greatest I am" post
This, --- for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing, --- is a part of my ideology/theology, given that I call myself a Gnostic Christian.

Does yours, and how do you exercise that degrading chore?

This last question, I send to all.

I believe in Christian Unity and a greater interfaith cooperation when working towards the common good. In our town the faith communities have opened up five houses for the homeless, they organise the food bank, organise and run food programmes for underprivileged children and much more.

Many communities do that without the parent having to hate their gay children, and make sure women know that they are a degree beneath men.

Christian right unity includes helping Jesus bring on yet another holy genocide, via Armageddon.

If only evil people use guns, I, like Christians that you like, will sing of Adams sin as a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

I am happy my kin sinned to end WWII or we would be communicating in German.

Are you sure good people do not use guns and Atomic Bombs?

We are way below Yahweh and his using guns against all the animals in Noah's day.

The only good Christians are Gnostic Christians, so they say.

Change your wish to a good god and not an evil Jesus/Yahweh/genocidal combo.

Ther morals suck.

Regards
DL

[EricPH]

I am happy my kin sinned to end WWII or we would be communicating in German.
Are you sure good people do not use guns and Atomic Bombs?

The good Germans within their own country were unable to overcome the evil Germans at the time of Hitler.

The US is said to have been involved in 32 distinct and separate bombing campaigns on 24 different countries between 1945 and 1999.

It seems like the good people in the Us could not stop their government bombing other countries.

[Greatest I am]

I am happy my kin sinned to end WWII or we would be communicating in German.
Are you sure good people do not use guns and Atomic Bombs?

The good Germans within their own country were unable to overcome the evil Germans at the time of Hitler.

The US is said to have been involved in 32 distinct and separate bombing campaigns on 24 different countries between 1945 and 1999.

It seems like the good people in the Us could not stop their government bombing other countries.

A good think or we would be Heilling Hitler.

Done here.

I think our morals are too far apart for us to bother with each other.

Yahweh bombed with water and used a genocide that you do not complain about.

You forgive him while condemning us for less evil.

We have nowhere to go.

Regards
DL

[EricPH]

Change your wish to a good god and not an evil Jesus/Yahweh/genocidal combo.

Ther morals suck.

The Bible has about two thousand passages that refer to justice for the poor, the refugees, widows and orphans. It talks about helping others. If you can't see this, then maybe look at your morals.

[Greatest I am]

Change your wish to a good god and not an evil Jesus/Yahweh/genocidal combo.

Ther morals suck.

The Bible has about two thousand passages that refer to justice for the poor, the refugees, widows and orphans. It talks about helping others. If you can't see this, then maybe look at your morals.

I see it. It does not negate the evilness of the god you favor.

If hypocritical Christians ever had the balls to analyse Christianity's love of a genocidal prick, homophobia and misogyny, they would learn morals and become Gnostic Christians.

Christianity was a decent creed, but stupid supernatural fears now control their corrupted minds.

Any religion that has a father hate his gays or female children is a devil's religion based on evil.

Prove me wrong.

Regards
DL

[EricPH]

If hypocritical Christians ever had the balls to analyse Christianity's love of a genocidal prick, homophobia and misogyny,
DL

Anyone who has an opinion about the nature of God could be called a theologian. It has been said that a theologian often reveals more about their own nature than they do about God.

they would learn morals and become Gnostic Christians.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Greatest I am]

If hypocritical Christians ever had the balls to analyse Christianity's love of a genocidal prick, homophobia and misogyny,
DL

Anyone who has an opinion about the nature of God could be called a theologian. It has been said that a theologian often reveals more about their own nature than they do about God.

they would learn morals and become Gnostic Christians.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Compare any time, or show why anyone should adore a genocidal ***** of a god.

Regards
DL